I thought it would be interesting to see what those who are looking forward to buying (or wishing they could buy) the 950 consider the biggest three selling points. I put together a list of 13 major (IMHO) features of the 950 and compared it to the 1050 with the same list, since technically the 1050 can act as a pre-amp as well.

So, here is the list. I'd love to hear what other people are considering the most important 3 or so items on the list and maybe the least important one too. It might be easiest to reference them by number, but do it however you'd like.

Any other items not included on the list are also welcome, as I am sure I missed a few of the big features that somebody else might really be looking for. So here they are:

950 Features:

1. Triple Crossover (Front, Center, Rear)
2. 80 Hz 5.1 analog x-over possible
3. Analog Bypass on all inputs possible
4. Newest Processing Options (DTS-ES, DPL II, etc)
5. 2 Zone w/ 2 Triggers
6. 2 line display & OSD
7. HDTV component switching
8. 7 A/V inputs all S-video
9. 4 optical/2coax digital inputs
10. Coax and Optical digital outputs
11. 24 Bit/128x oversampling ADC 105 dB dynamic range. 192kHz/24 bit 120 dB
SNR DAC.
12. 8 device, learning/4 button macro remote

1050 Features:

1. Single Crossover
2. No analog x-over
3. Analog Bypass possible only on 5.1 inputs
4. DD 5.1, DPL, DTS & proprietary 6.1
5. Single zone w/ 1 trigger
6. 1 line Display & No OSD
7. No Component switching
8. 4 A/V inputs, 3 S-Video
9. 2 optical/1 coax digital inputs
10. No digital outputs
11. ??? ADC. 96Khz/24 bit (??97 dB SNR???)
DAC
12. 8 Device remote

I guess my top three reasons for coveting the 950 would be items 1, 5 & 11. The least important one to me is item 12.

Anybody else???

S.


[This message has been edited by MrSandman (edited December 20, 2001).]

OK, I'll toss in my $0.02.

The most important 950 features for me: 3, 4, 10.

One thing that really interested me was the analog bypass on any input. Very cool for stereo music listening with a CD player equipped with a very nice DAC. The various processing options also caught my eye as a lot of fun. The extra digital inputs (primarily the extra coax) will allow me to do some things I can't currently. . Other items like the extra digital inputs, the 24/128 DAC, the crossover features (until I get a sub I couldn't see full benefit of that one), and the HDTV switching are nice for me from a "future expansion" standpoint, although not necessarily immediately useful.

Items 4, 8, and 9 on the 1050 were probably the features that originally convinced me to try an Outlaw product, by the way (along with the 1050's price).

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Gonk

Alright, I guess I'll weigh in, too.

My choices are 1, 4, 9.

#1 is important because my speakers are all different sizes, and because of its general cool factor (few others have it).

#9 is important because I know I'll run out of digitial inputs on the 1050 or most other receivers very quickly.

#4, particularly DPL II, is important because I listen to a lot of 2 channel stuff, and because I'd like to be able to get a rear channel with DTS-ES and DD-EX.

#10 is close to #9 in importance, however, because it gives me the flexibility to add a recording device such as a minidisk or a CDR and get copies without a D-A-D conversion. #3 also comes close.

I'd say #12 is least important, followed by the tuner. The tuner will be useful initially but it probably won't be long before I add an external one. Its simply not possible to build into a preamp a tuner with all the features and functions you can find in stand-alone tuners. I'd rather have separates there.

I've reserved one & these are my thoughts:

1. Triple Crossover >>> I run Klipsch Cornwall II's as mains & want to set the crossover 60hz or lower to better integrate the sub while having the ability to match center & surrounds as needed (I run full-range surrounds)

3. Analog Bypass on all inputs possible >>> Digital processing is fine where actually needed but analog signals should stay analog from start to finish, the least processing usually results in the cleanest sound.

4. Newest Processing Options (DTS-ES, DPL II, etc) >>> I have a lot of VHS's I want to be able to use with DPL II, I can't afford to replace them all with DVD's anytime soon. Plus I want true 6-channel DD-EX & DTS-ES decoding for DVD's.

13. Outlaw design, build quality, & the company's ethics (OK, so I made that one up but its VERY important to me)

My top 3 are #4, #3, and also the fact that the 950 IS a dedicated preamp, not a receiver acting as one.

When I decided to go the separates route, part of the reason was so I could eventually install my components in the back of the living room, in a built-in cabinet. This makes a nice clean look at the front of the room with just the TV and speakers. However, it not a good idea to cram an amp, let alone 5 or 7 amps, into a closed cabinet. Too much heat. So my plan requires the amps to be placed someplace else (under the floor in the basement).

So I want a preamp only, not a receiver acting as one. Sure that works for most people, but I also already own a 5 channel amp, so I would rather spend my money on the preamp circuitry and not on unused receiver amplification.

I have also committed to 6.1 and have 2 rear speakers ready to go. That is why #4 is important to me. Trying to find an AV preamp with 6.1 processing is tough, especially if you want DTS ES discrete. This is why the 950 is at the top of my list. (I think it is the only one that makes the list)

Finally, I started my system as music first, home theater second. #3 allows for better sound quality when a decent CD player or DAC is used, as gonk stated.

I also agree with Audioholic's #13.

I like #4, #1, & #7. But I really like the fact that you get #1 thru #12 for $899. I also agree with Audioholic's #13.

Mark

My first post to the Outlaw BBS! I've got the 750, waiting for the 950. Here's why.....

1. I have Cornwall II's and I need the crossover flexibility - much like "audioholic", and for the same reasons.

3. Analog bypass for best 2 channel sound possible.

4. All of the latest processing options. DPLII really has my interest piqued.

10. I really need the digital outs to integrate into my DAL soundcard (which offers both optical and coax inputs!)

The proof will ultimately come in the sound quality of the unit though, and based on past performance by this company, it should be a winner. This looks to be a wonderful package for $899. Let's hope that the initial release is trouble free (no software issues, etc).

Proud to be an Outlaw!

3,11, 13

I'm suprised only the original poster mentioned 11. I would think it's important

Hard to pick specific reasons. Comes down to the same reason I wanted the 1050 originally ... Bang for the Buck. But if I have to pick ... I guess I find numbers 1, 4, 7 & 11 to be the more important improvements over the 1050 in my limited experience.

In my case, it's not going to be an upgrade, it's going to be an addition. I'm building a house. It's a raised ranch with a finished basement ... for a dedicated HT. My intent is to put the 1050 upstairs in the living room and the 950 in the HT. I've already got a 750, so I'll just need a pair of monoblocks to go along with the 750, or I'll need to replace the 750 with a 770.


------------------
pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

3, 4, 1, and 11 in that order... and of course the price.

------------------
Take Care,
merc

For me it is #1,#4 and the great value you are getting for a quality component-not to mention the 30day money back guarantee.

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Like for any audio equipment the biggest selling point should be audio quality. There are tons of recievers arround. which do have gazzilion features and still sound like crap. If sound quality is up to Anthem or B&K (I assume direct competitors of 950), then Outlaw is great bargin and superbuy. If sound quality is lower no amount of features can compensate it.

Kuzia: The Anthem costs $3500(w/DPL2) and the Ref 30 costs $2500(without DPL2)and you want a $900 unit to equal their performance? Wow! If that happens, Outlaw will certainly not be able to build enough of these units to keep up with the demand and both BK and SF will sell no more units? Even the rich folk care about getting their moneys worth, I'm guessing?

------------------
Take Care,
merc

merc,
this is what "great value" is. If 950 sound quality is subpar compare to B&K and Anthem, then what kind of value is it? In one of my rooms I do have 3 year old H/K AVR-65, which does have DD,DTS, 5.1 input and pre-outs, bass management (which you can setup independently for various speaker groups AND inputs/decoding modes) and amp section to boot. The whole enchilada now can be had for ~$250. Why would I change it? BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP! The main reason people going into separates is sound quality. As far as features, Technics receiver will have more features then BAT preamp, but it does not necessary makes it a better product.

I am looking for 950 to provide comparable to B&K sound quality, and based on attention to details they demonstrated in 950 development cycle I believe they will!

1, 4 and 13 seem to be the most important items. however, i'm concerning about item #9. if i hook everything up, all the dig. inputs will be all gone. i wish it had some more. ugh.
ps: and it is upgradable too!!!

I agree that the new formats and features such as dpl2 and 7.1 are important. But I also agree that if the overall sound quality isn't up to snuff, the features it has won't be worth much to me.

Kind of like a car. CD Changer, heated seats, navigation, all wheel drive, etc. are all on my shopping list, but if the car doesn't drive well I'll look elsewhere.

As someone mentioned, the reason we're in seperates in the first place is for the sound. For that one reason we've opted to invest more money, and eschew the convenience and features of one piece receivers.

Its gotta sound good, baby!

Like others have said-- if it sounds like a $900 piece of equipment then where is the intended value for the money? What then is the point of having an Outlaw Audio in the first place?

You would think it could and should sound more like a B&K or Anthem (if not better if they're using a more straight forward/simple design w/ cleaner soldering and noise free power supply and proper shielding) since they are selling direct without going through a dealer chain which includes markup. A well thought out design which is produced enmasse (so batch prices are chopped) can sometimes yield a better result than a poorly conceived and engineered HT-boutique priced product that was created in limited quantities.

The prices Outlaw sells for should be basically dealer cost given to us directly.

I'm guessing if that was the case then a $900 Model 950 unit maybe should be equivalent to a $1,500 - $2,000+ piece depending on relative dealer markup.

The proof is in the listening and thorough, professional testing of the Model 950 when it is finally released.

--------------

My initial reasons for wanting a Model 950 are the features (namely DTS-ES, DD EX, ProLogic II, and adjustable bass X-overs) and potential sound quality for the price.

Besides, I currently have two processors (one for straight DTS, which is a very limited first generation Millennium 2.4.6 with a noisy relay, but overall good, clean sound from its simple/clean design and Burr-Brown pro-DACs, and an all-digital input Sony ES for Dolby Digital/ProLogic that does have adjustable bass paramenters, AC-3 LD RF demod., and an EQ, but has a noisy power supply and runs damn hot).

Those two create a huge rat's nest of various interconnects due to the fact I have one decoder for each format and the requirement of an outboard A/D converter and digital output format converter. With the Model 950 my system would be a hell of a lot simpler and less messy.

Dan

[This message has been edited by Dan Hitchman (edited January 08, 2002).]