Howdy all,

I just got my LFM-1 and have been trying to get it set up for the last few evenings. Here is what I have found out, and if anyone else could comment on their experiences, or if I am just dumb, I would appreciate it.

When I calibrated the sub to be relatively close the DB's of the other speakers, I couldn't really hear it when watching movies of listening to music. So, I turned the gain up on the back until I could hear the bass the way I thought I should. I noticed however that I had to turn the gain almost all the way up to hear it. So, I went into the 950's (Yes, I'm a Outlaw Audio advocate here) menu and used the "Speaker Trim" to adjust the sub so that I didn't have to have the sub's gain turned all the way up. I actually had the trim up to +10 (max for a speaker calibration setting) and it still seemed like I had to turn the gain on the sub up to about 3/4 of the way to hear it the way I wanted too.

Now, for arguement sake, I'm not trying to shake the pictures off the walls here. I do want to be able to destinctly hear the bass and feel it at the listening position, if possible without taking the pictures off the wall. From the reviews I have read of the sub, it souded like it was more than capable of doing it, with room to spare. So, I'm curious if I just have something set wrong, or if this is normal. I have the crossover set to "bypass". I also messed with the phase switch, but couldn't hear any difference between the two phase settings. I am running Definitive speakers (mid level value) with the crossover on the 950 set to 80Hz.

Thanks for reading guys....if anyone could let me know of their experiences with the sub, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Incog

[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited August 05, 2004).]

Do you have the speakers set to small or large in the 950's speaker setup? Setting them to large may direct the LFE to the mains. Also, where do you have the sub located?

Thanks for responding!

I have all of the speakers set to small. With the sub being down firing, I didn't spend too much time placing the sub in the room. It's sitting between one of the main speakers and the TV. I do have carpet under the sub, and I ended up having to raise the sub further off the floor (using the adjustable spikes) becuase it looked like I only had about a 1/4 of an inch of clearance between the top of the carpet and the bottom of the sub. Could it be that I need to get the sub elevated off the floor more? I guess I didn't think about the carpet under the sub dampening the bass (via absorbtion or diffusing). But, even if it's not placed perfectly in a room, shouldn't that kind of be negated if you go stand right next to it? I can understand that it might not sound well at the listening position without some optimum placement, but if you were right next to it adjusting it, you should get a better feel for the amount of bass, shouldn't you? I guess I recall someone telling me once that bass waves are very long, and thus the farther you are from it, the better it sound (or feels). I don't know anything about that, so if there is truth to that, please let me know.

I guess I was just surprised that with all things turned up like that (the 950 trim level, and the gain on the sub) that it wasn't putting out so much bass that most of the house was vibrating.

Thanks again for the response!

Incog

A couple of things to consider...

1) What are your crossover settings? I have my mains crossed over at 60Hz and on music listening there are many discs that never produce anything at or below that crossover point. I'd make sure that the LFM-1 is actually being asked to work.

2) As a parallel to this comment, I'd set the sub up using some bass-involved material that you are familiar with. The LFM-1 blended better in my system than my previous sub, which will likely make moderate level bass or bass near the crossover point difficult to identify as coming from the sub (which is of course a good thing). Feed it some deep bass that you know (the SVS FAQ's have a good list of examples) and see if you get some bone-jarring, window-rattling, housepet-terrifying rumble. If the LFM-1 is still holding back, I'd suspect that your carpet is acting as a muffler and a few blocks or a board under the LFM-1 to get it up a bit higher might give it the room to breath.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Hmmm....I don't have personal experience with the LFM-1, my sub is almost 10 years old now....PSB subsonic 3(front firing 12" woofer, 180watts, two rear ports, no bypass)and run it at 80hz x-over thru my 1050, Ascend CBM-170's set to small. If anything, I may have gotten acustomed to the sound, but don't think there's not enough bass. Maybe it's the clearance between the sub and the carpet or the proximty of the sub to the room boundaries which have a dramatic affect on sub response.

Incognito:

If you have a calibration disc with frequency sweep, it would show how smooth the transition is. If not, THX audio test can also be used which is in “Options” part of both Star Wars DVDs.

Like gonk said, it could be the source you were playing.


[This message has been edited by Spiker (edited August 05, 2004).]

One good test DVD is Finding Nemo and the "Darla" chapter where she is tapping the fish tank.....rattles everything in the house! Also the submarine sliding off the edge of the casm is a good one too.

Hoo... Yeah, I tried that chapter the day I got my LFM-1. It made you entirely sympathize with the reaction of the fish - I felt like the den was an aquarium and some giant was tapping on the french doors with a wrecking ball. If you have Nemo and that passage doesn't shake your bones at anywhere near reference level, I'd try putting something under the feet and giving it a second try. (If you do that, though, I'd suggest starting out by turning the gain back down first.)

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Thank you all for you responses!

I went and looked for reference material to use when listening to the sub, through reviews of the LFM-1. I tried "Underworld: chapter 3", "U571: Depth Charge Chapter", and the "Pearl Harbor: Chapter 22". I don't have Finding Nemo, but I will borrow it from someone and give it a try.

I did do a frequency sweep on the sub and it did very well; started hearing it aroudn 22Hz and it went up to near 120Hz with no dips in bass.

I was listening to a music CD and it had very rare frequencies that went to the sub. I put in a music DVD and I actually couldn't hear any noticable bass from the sub. I was playing "Santana: Supernatural" DVD. In one fo the reviews, it said the DVD-Audio version of that disc has some good bass. I don't have the ICBM yet, so I didn't think using SACD or DVD-A would be a good sound test yet.

I was thinking of trying to get one of those pure bass CD's that the younger crowds like to play in their cars while cruising down the road. I remember the bass from those making my nose itch when I was younger.

I will give the stuff you all mentioned a try.

Thanks guys! Feel free to off more suggestions. I will give all that I can, a try.

Thanks again,
Incog

Guys,

Sorry to post back to back.....but is there any chance that the DVD player might be part of the problem? Like maybe it's not sending the full signal (cutting off some of the low end to the tracks). I have a Panisonic Universal Player (47A I think). Just curious if it could be something else.

Thanks guys,
Incog

As long as you are running a digital connection to the 950, and have assigned that digital input to the DVD source input, and the player is outputting in digital(Dolby-Digital as well as DTS-you may have to go into the players setup menu to make sure the digital stream is active), everything should work normally.

Hello Incognito,

It's true that bass frequency wave lengths are quite long, so I suggest putting the sub in the same place you plan to sit. Next, calibrate your sub so that it is 10db hotter than your other channels. Finally, walk all around the room while playing a bass track you're familiar with. When you find a place that the sub sounds really good, consider placing the sub there. Do this until you find a place where the sub sounds "right", and where it would also be in a place you can live with.

Best,

Scott

if i were a betting man, i would say it is a wrong setting somewhere or perhaps a switch in the wrong spot. perhaps a lose power connection/bad outlet/bad something. placement for subs is mucho importante, but if you are right next to it and it still sounds like poop, it probably always will (if it is setup correctly of course).

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This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.

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Thanks Scott and everyone else for you comments!

Last night I put some wood under the spikes (strips of wood) to get the sub up a little bit from the carpet. That seemed to help a great deal. I was curious how to calibrate it though. So, Scott, I appreciate your comments. I will set it to 10db higher than everything else.

Since we are kind of on the calibration topic, I have a very dumb question....when reviews talk about calibrating things to "reference" level, what is that. I have always used the test tones and set the speakers to 75db all the way around...but where should the volume on the 950 be set when playing the test tones? Do you set it to the level that you would normally listen to movies and music, or do you turn it way up and then calibrate the speakers to 75db? I have typically always set the the 950 to 0db, and then calibrated the speakers (using the test tones) to 75db on the sound meter. Is there a better way to do it?

Thanks for all of your help guys!

Incog

P.S. Gonk, I tried Finding Nemo last night...poor fish.

I'm not sure how the 950 calibrates. With the 1050 I start with the front left main, set the master volume until my SPL meter reads 75db, and use the level trim (+/-db) for the center, surround and LFE channels. If the front left/right levels are not matched, I have to use the balance control to even those out. The sub is tricky, and usually calibrated to what sounds "right" to me. Reference level, I think, is the volume setting used to achieve the 75db calibration. So, if you set the volume to zero when calibrating, then zero would be reference level. Anyone have a better explanation please chime in(Gonk!).

I'm under the impression that 75 db should be 0 on the master volume. All channels are trimmed so that they play a reference tone at 75 db when the master is at 0.

****I was listening to a music CD and it had very rare frequencies that went to the sub. I put in a music DVD and I actually couldn't hear any noticable bass from the sub. I was playing "Santana: Supernatural" DVD. In one fo the reviews, it said the DVD-Audio version of that disc has some good bass. I don't have the ICBM yet, so I didn't think using SACD or DVD-A would be a good sound test yet.****

I don't know what kind of music you listen to, but any kind of CD music I play with my sub (diy Tempest) it comes into play big time. The sub is very responsive in SACD and music DVDs also (you definitely would notice the bass in Supernatural). I would suspect that something is amiss in your setup or the sub is not working properly. While listening to music and you turn off the sub, there should be a noticeable difference. Hopefully you'll be able to track down the problem.

Is that the best way to do it...set the calibration setting on the left front speaker to 0db and then adjust the main volume until you get 75db on the meter, and then calibrate the rest of the speakers to 75db with the main volume being untouched? It sounds like we probably achieved the same result, but if that is the best way to do it, it sounds easier to me.

As for the music listening comment...it might sound "correct" now that I got the sub up off the floor. I haven't done much music listening since I got it elevated...I'm more of a movie person.

Thanks again all!

Incog

The 950's manual has a fairly good section on calibration. Basically, set the main volume to 00dB before entering the 950's menu, then calibrate each channel so that the test tones measure at roughly 75dB in the primary listening position. As an example, I think all of my speakers vary up or down 2 to 4 dB all the way around the room. The sub is a bit different, as the Radio Shack meter that most of us use behaves a bit oddly with low frequency measurements. I tend to do a fairly "rough" calibration on the sub (getting it to around 70dB or 72dB using the 950's test tone) and then tweak it to suit my listening preferences, but that's just me being a little odd...

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Thanks everyone for your help!

I got the sub lifted up and calibrated. It sounds great now.

Now, I just have to decide if I want the second one....hehehe

Well Fellow Outlaws....my second LFM-1 is on the way...so if you hear, or read, about an earthquake in the midwest...don't fret...it's just me tuning these bad boys in my house.

I've listened to Incogs system with only one LFM and with 2 LFMs. Let me just say that I am VERY impressed with the capability and the depth of having two LFMs hooked up. I WAS AMAZED and really like them. Makes me wish I would of bought 2 LFMs instead of 1 sub that cost more than both.

cheers,
Nert

Ingonito,
I used hooked-up 2!!! outstanding!!!!