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#34280 - 12/25/04 04:18 PM Need a crossover?
num1steeler Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Misawa, Japan
Can anyone tell me if I bi-amp my Paradigms with the 7100, do I need to add a crossover between the 950 and the 7100? Thanks

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#34281 - 12/25/04 06:49 PM Re: Need a crossover?
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
i don't think so.sounds like you are going for a PASSIVE biamp(like i do to my b&w's). just do y's to the amp input and wire.i'm not familiar with the 7100,does it have trim for each input,it really helps,if not totally necesarry.

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#34282 - 12/25/04 10:19 PM Re: Need a crossover?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Passive bi-amping (splitting the pre-amp output signal to two amp channels and connecting each amp channel to a separate set of binding posts on the speaker) does not require an external crossover.
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#34283 - 12/25/04 10:34 PM Re: Need a crossover?
num1steeler Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Misawa, Japan
Great! I was hoping I wouoldn't need the crossover. Painttoad, input trim? What is that? I've read different views about Bi-amping, but it looks like fun to try since I have the two extra channels of amp left anyway.
Thanks for the help guys.

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#34284 - 12/26/04 09:52 AM Re: Need a crossover?
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
crap,i did a reply and forgot to send it!input trims are level controls for each amp channel usually found on the rear panel.

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#34285 - 12/26/04 10:22 AM Re: Need a crossover?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
Outlaw's amps do not include trim control.
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#34286 - 12/26/04 01:20 PM Re: Need a crossover?
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
no trims..sh would you recommend a passive biamp without having the extra "tweaks" to balance the drivers?

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#34287 - 12/26/04 02:57 PM Re: Need a crossover?
bestbang4thebuck Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
Q: If you were not bi-amping, how would you balance the channels? A: You wouldn't. Both the high frequency and low frequency input sections of the crossover are tied together and receiving the same level of signal. The crossover designers have already put in any attenuation necessary to bring the more efficient/sensitive parts of the multi-driver system down to match the less efficient/sensitive parts of the system.

Q: If you're passive bi-amping and feeding both the high frequency and low frequency input sections with the same level of signal, how would you balance the channels? A: You wouldn't. You're still using the all the passive crossover elements and the crossover designers have already put in any attenuation necessary to bring the more efficient/sensitive parts of the multi-driver system down to match the less efficient/sensitive parts of the system.

This works if you are reasonably certain that each channel being used already has the same amount of gain.

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#34288 - 12/26/04 06:20 PM Re: Need a crossover?
Sound Killer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 128
Yes. Passive crossover not only will attenuate, it will also compress your signal when the input voltage is too large. It also introduces many problems, such as current limiting; frequency distortion…etc or even worse, catch on fire if drive hard enough!!

One thing worth noting is that when you use passive speakers, you will waste many precious amplifier powers. Did you know when you use a 200 W amp to push a passive speaker enclosure that has 5 drivers (1 tweeter, 2 mid, 2 woofers) in it you will get only about 40 W to each of the five drivers or maybe even less regardless of the internal crossover involved? Same thing apply to the passive bi-amping, even though the situation will improve some. That’s also one of the reasons why passive speakers always need a lot of power and still can’t get any louder than a pure active system. This kind of set-up not only get a lot of distortion, but also very inefficient to the drivers and amps. If your speakers allow internal crossover bypassing, use it. That is the best. In my system, I always use one-amp-one-driver approach unless I need to parallel same drivers to form 4-ohm load, although this way is bit expensive

One benefit of buying raw drivers and active crossover to bi- or Tri-amping is that you know exactly what kind of speakers you are getting and you have more control over you sound. I’ve listened whole bunch of small Hi-Fi high power passive systems; yet, I still have not found one that louder, cleaner than a pure active one.

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#34289 - 12/26/04 06:54 PM Re: Need a crossover?
painttoad Offline
Desperado

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 688
Loc: peoria il
ok, maybe i like it because:
1-i can
2-it does give me extra control without using the 10k treble control(trim level on my b&k amp)
3-i swear i may be a bit louder using 4 channels instead of 2(when i did this i thought i knew the pros and cons)but it cost me no money when i biamped
one day maybe i will go through the motions to build an active system but till then i will biamp my b&w's and like it. i would venture to say that if anybody could and would try it without spending any real money.do it.check it out.you be the judge.it is your stereo.
i like it.
just my .03

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