If a signal is processed or altered in the digital domain, then it is considered digital signal processing. All of the room correction systems I know of occur in the digital domain. This can sometimes mean that the signal needs to be converted from analog to digital and then back to analog. On the Pioneer website it mentions the 55txi will adjust delays, reverb etc..this is certainly a digital effect. Thus DSP.

Did you audition the 950 or any other pre/pro with your system?






[This message has been edited by harp795 (edited June 04, 2004).]

How do I turn off notifications for this topic? I've been done with the discussion for awhile.

Robert

multichannel audio and analog connected equipment is the only place that you wont get digital signal processing (if you want to not get it...). so if you think processing in the digital domain is so bad, then quit watching anything connected digitally. i for one have no analog connections to my receiver (that is a pre/pro) so i am only getting digital to analog conversion once. i guess some people use more analog than that, but it is becoming more obsolete as the days pass. even multichannel audio (where there is a benefit from connecting analog) is likely to be replaced by a digital connection. once that happens the d.s. processor in your processor will be the center of any decoding/steering/etc. hence the need for it in the first place and the development of digital transmission cables.

i hope you only listen to stereo coming from analog inputs, because if not the nasty little thing called dsp is mutilating your signal. or perhaps it is making it what is so great about surround sound...

yes, i did demo a couple of pre/pros (not the 950 since they are online only and you have to pay for return shipping and is more outdated than i desired). however the minimal (if any) gains sonically, were far outweighed by the heftier price tag associated with pre/pros that were current on their processing and included some features that i liked. i dont mind the price of something, it is the value that i am looking for. a product being $10k could be better than one costing $1k, but it is not likely that is 10x better, or even 2x better, so it would not merit the price increase. however if there was a product being $2000 that was 2x as good as one costing $1000, then it would warrant a look. unfortunately prices are not structured like that in audio, you pay way more money for slightly better sound (and same features) or at least the perception that you are getting better sound.

i think there are better ways to enhance my (and your) system than wasting money just by going pre/pro. as we all should know the most important pard of sound reproduction is the reproducer, i.e. the speaker. the speaker is where all the signal gets changed in audible tones, and if you want to make a dramatic improvement it is the speakers that will make the most. yes, changing from a tape deck to a cd would be a big change, but some assumption of even the lowest end (albeit current) gear would see the greatest effectual difference by changing speakers.

my point is that pre/pros are overpriced for what you are getting, their cost vs benefits do not approach the point where one would want to get one solely on the fact that is a pre/pro.

BEING A PRE/PRO IN NO WAY MEANS THAT YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO A RECEIVER. SOME ARE BETTER AND SOME ARE NOT. RIGHT NOW A LOT OF THE MORE VALUE MINDED COMPANIES ARE OFFERING DATED PRE/PROS (AS IS THE TREND WITH THEM, BECAUSE THEY WANT VALUE FROM THEIR GEAR IN THE FIRST PLACE), BUT IN THE FUTURE A PRE/PRO AT THE PRICE WHERE I GOT MY RECEIVER COULD BE AS GOOD AS IT; RIGHT NOW THERE IS NOT ONE.

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[This message has been edited by curegeorg (edited June 04, 2004).]

You should just get a Sony then, Sony is typically packed with the latest features at a low price, and if it sounds the same to you as a higher end pre/pro, then you win !!!!

IF sony did sound as good, then you are right. sony does not, so the purchase would be a waste. i should say that no sony i have ever heard was good, but i dont auditon ever because they are always inferior. if that changes then id give them a shot though.

dont get me wrong, i am not saying that every receiver processes as well as every pre/pro. however, some receivers process better than pre/pros and sound as good.

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Well that is interesting considering that on May 21 2004 you posted "I was going to go with Anthem AV20 before I read about the Outlaw stuff which seems very competitive. Also looked at Rotel very closely. The Outlaw combo just seems like the best value and that is important to me." Even though this was AFTER you posted you had purchased a Denon Receiver. Secondly, and most importantly, how can you draw any conclusions about sound quality between receivers and pre/pro's if you have not spent any significant time with a pre/pro in your system Seems to me you lack the hands on knowledge to adequately make a comparison between the two.

As far as the digital connections becoming obselete, again you don't have any experience in running a properly calibrated and setup system with analog connections, so you can't really comment. The only reason why a digital connection would be better than analog is if the DAC's in the pre/pro/receiver are superior that those in the player and for convenience (less wires). Plus, the jury is still out on what connection is going to be fully implemented, so you may be buying something you do not need.

I'd be interested in you elaborating more on how you can improve MY system more than by improving my pre/pro. Have you ever heard my system? So you are saying that I should upgrade the NHT speakers I have? I happen to like my speakers, so I'll keep them the same thanks!



Once again, you make statements about a topic in which you have no experience. How do you know the new Sony receivers sound badly? You didn't listen to their new receivers so you can't really accurately comment on their sound.

the outlaw is one of the best values in a pre/pro and amp setup. i dont have a pre/pro, i have a receiver that is doing the processing and IT is the best value that i could find at the time of my purchase because it had features that the 950 did not.

you shouldnt assume that i do not have experience with pre/pros in my system, because i have used them in the past and i have used receivers solely in the past and i have used receivers as pre/pros. so my observations are just as merited as you THINK yours are.



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again, you shouldnt assume my experience on anything. i didnt just jump into the market of audio equipment. i know about analog equipment. i also know where the path is taking us, and if you do not, then perhaps you shouldnt comment on something that YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT unless you need someone to tell you.

one must first narrow down the field of available products by reading reviews, specs, etc. before getting to the short list of products to audition. there are too many audio products to test them all out in your system at home. so it helps to quickly eliminate those that you can expect to suck, if after all they didnt suck, one would have noticed a trend somewhere that would have revealed the new quality of a product that say, Sony, just made. i dont have time or desire to buy every product capable of processing sound and tossing it into my system for evaluation, granted i cant say that the ones i didnt try are absolutely horrible, but by the mere fact that i passed them by in the first place, i know they are not as good.

i systematically evaluate the pros and cons of a product, read what other people are saying, read reviews, read specs, evaluate the manufacturer and their track record, then narrow it down to the selection of several that i could consider ACTUALLY purchasing. the 950 fell off the list of ACTUAL available purchases for many reasons, and for other reasons others did not. i got the 3805 for many reasons, knowing that i could have gotten a better product, even from denon, but weighing other factors like cost and why other products would be better decided that combined in my system the 3805 was the best bang for my buck. i almost bought a 5803, but even having been offered it at only twice the price of the 3805 turned it down because it is not twice as good as the 3805 and shouldnt be twice as much (utilizing seperate amps as i would have and do), plus i would have had to upgrade it, etc.

i have been lucky enough not to experience very many products by Sony; this is directly correlated by the process of which i eliminate them from possible purchases...

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Look, I'm not asking for a pissing match here, I just value people opinions more when I know the opinion is based on first hand experience with a product in which they are commenting. Since you didn't specifically list which pre/pro's you demo'd, it's probably safe to say you MAY have demo'd some items in a store, but not in your house. Or maybe you did, just let us know the products you are using to make your pre/pro arguement. This would help us in the forum better understand your point. I base my opinions on the fact that while my 950 was out, I used a Yamaha RXV-1000 (my bedroom receiver) as a preamp. The difference was night and day, with the 950 being far superior in terms of sound quality. So my experience has been that an equally priced receiver was NOT equal to an equally priced pre/pro in sound quality. If you want to pay extra for connections (1394, USB)that you don't now need or use, be my guest. But by the time you decide you NEED (which will require you to upgrade the DVD player you just puchased) to use the 1394 connection (or Denon link in your case), your Denon receiver will likely be obsolete.

We do agree on something though. Fishing is certainly a why to help find the meaning of life!!


[This message has been edited by harp795 (edited June 04, 2004).]