I received the Outlaw RR 2150 last week and have had time to listen and go over all functions. I am not nearly as impressed as I thought I would be due to all the reviews. I have the current version so I don't know how it compares to the original one. First off it is a 100 watt per channel and is not a impressive 100 watts by any means. Another problem I see is the Subwoofer section as it is weak. I'm not sure what the problem is but I spoke with Outlaw and they made suggestions that I use the bass management system which I tried. The problem when using it is you can't control the volume of the subwoofer uless you use bypass. Using 60,80 or 100hz settings all have a set volume within the receiver if you have a powered subwoofer. It bypasses your crossover and volume control within the Sub. AM/FM are about the same as any other receiver I have owned. I have compared the Outlaw with a few other receivers and have found that of the others which are the Onkyo TX-8522, Yamaha RX-797, HK-3380 and NAD C720BEE the NAD won hands down over all including the Outlaw. The only one out of the bunch that didn't have a sub out was the Onkyo but it had pretty much everything else not to mention a great price. The Yamaha & HK both have all the functions I would ever use and the NAD lacks a phono section but at the lowest rated power of all it had more punch, dynamics and was more musical than all of them. The sub output is the best and doesn't need a bass management system at all. I waited over 5 months for the Outlaw RR 2150 and I was very unhappy to hear the results of my wait. I could have went to any local hifi store and picked up any of the 3 other receivers that keep up with the Outlaw or gone to my friends at Sounds Terrific and purchased another NAD C720BEE and been ahead of the game at a lower price. This is only my opinion but it was not worth the wait at all.

Your problems with the bass management section confuse me a bit. From what I could see in the manual, the RR2150 does not have a subwoofer trim setting, so you'd want to use the sub's volume (or trim) control to balance the sub with the mains, but the sub signal should track the mains. The purpose of the crossover settings is to offer a more robust alternative to the crossover on powered subs - or just offering a crossover of any sort for folks with passive subs. The only way I can see to creating the scenario you describe is having an input on the sub that bypasses both, which is not something I've run into before. What sub do you have?

Hello Bugbitten,

No bass management implies that signals below the x-over point used by your subwoofer will be reproduced both by the sub and your speakers. This obviously has an impact on the accuracy of the reproduction of the original source material, which is why we feel it is so important to have a built in x-over applied to the main channels.

In addition as Gonk pointed out an independent subwoofer level control should not be necessary as the sub's level control allows you to calibrate your sub relative to your speakers. From there, the master volume keeps these in-line and matched.

Ultimately, what this comes down to is personal preference, and so far we couldn't be happier with the feedback we have received from the many customers who patiently waited for their unit.

Of course, we have a thirty day in-home trial which allows you to audition the component in the only listening room that actually matters, your own. We appreciate that you gave the RR2150 an audition and are sorry to hear that it did not suit your particular listening needs. That said, we stand by ready to assist you further.

Best,

Scott

The problems with the subwoofer /bass management is this. I have a direct input on my subwoofer and when used it bypasses the subwoofers crossover and volume control. I also have the input to use that operates the volume control and the crossover on the subwoofer. When I use the direct and use your bass management the bass is weak and I cannot adjust the volume. When I use the regular input on the subwoofer I am able to use my speakers full range as well as adjust the crossover and volume control but I'm at almost full volume on the sub before I can get close to the output of the speakers. So what I am saying is the subwoofer output on the Outlaw is set very low. I have tried it with a Gallo TR2, Sunfire, and a Athena AS-P 400 & 4000. Your head designer told me that the Athena was the best out of the bunch and one of the better subwoofers on the market. I'm not trashing the Outlaw I'm simply stating that for the money there are products available that perform as good and in the case of the NAD better than the Outlaw. And as far as the waiting part that my friend is was a mistake on my part. Someone should review the Outlaw vs the NAD and then you would see what I'm talking about as the Outlaw is far from the last word in 2 channel receivers. See Ya Scotty

The problem I see with bass management has more to do with your sub than with any receiver - it's good for a sub to offer a crossover bypass, but bypassing the volume control at the same time is something that I wouldn't care for under any circumstances (two channel or multichannel). You need that adjustability, and that need is independent of bass management. If that is actually the case with your Athena, I'd suggest moving your connection to the other (non-bypass) and then dial the sub's crossover as high as it'll go. Doing so will effectively take the sub's crossover out of the equation, since the entire signal from the RR2150 will land below that crossover. That's the standard approach for dealing with subs that lack a crossover bypass in a home theater setup.

I'm curious about your power comments. Outlaw has a reputation for rating their amps and receivers on the conservative side (as my old Model 1050 and its "little" 65W certainly proved), and the Stereophile review's bench tests indicated that the actual output was higher than the ratings (125W at 8 ohms before clipping and 190W at 4 ohms before clipping - well above the 100W and 160W specs). It even did 310W at 2ohms into one channel. When you found the receiver to sound "weak" how were you comparing it to other units? Were you setting to a comparable SPL level, or just cranking it all the way up to see what the outer limits were?

About the bass management issue: I tried it with four different subwoofers and they all acted the same way whether I used the bypass or 60,80,100hz so it's not the fault of the Athena which by the way is a great subwoofer. Far better than the one note sunfire or over rated Gallo. Now part two: I tested all the receivers at the same spl, not with the volume control level set the same. I don't ever punish any of my hifi gear and your comment of cranking it up all the way is a bit much. Your not dealing with a 16 year old who just bought his first stereo. The fact of the matter is the Outlaw is no more of a receiver than a Onkyo TX 8522, or a Yamaha RX-797 and is not close to being as dynamic or musical as the NAD C720BEE. I don't work for Outlaw or for NAD, what I do know is that the Outlaw is no bargin for what it offers. This is a direct order product made in China just as the others and probably in one of there factories offered direct at no better price than any of it's competitors. And as for the over 5 months I waited it was not worth the wait. I have given it to my son and have purchased another NAD as in my opinion it is by far the best 2 channel receiver on the market at this time. I've already seen the Outlaw RR2150 for sale on audiogon & Ebay so it must not be everybody's cup of tea. Regards...

No insult was intended - I'm just trying to help troubleshoot a situation that seems out of place in light of feedback from other sources (awards from Stereophile and Absolute Sound, comments from other owners, and the like), and as part of that I was trying to understand the specific circumstances. My interest in the RR2150 is pretty limited: I don't have one, don't have a place to use one, and haven't heard one, but I spend a lot of time around the saloon and tend to keep as up to speed as I can on what is happening around here. Your experience with the 2150 seemed to not fit with the typical reaction, so I thought it would help everybody involved (you, me, Outlaw, other readers) to understand exactly what your setup was. Call it a side effect of being an engineer and of having done a bit too much building commissioning and systems trouble-shooting, but I always start out with the most basic assumptions and make sure nothing's wrong there (whether it's with a person online about whom I know nothing, a friend I know well, or me and my own system). Obviously no product is going to be an ideal fit for every person, but the crowd around here can usually offer some useful feedback to make sure that disappointment or problems don't come from avoidable setup problems.

Not to harp on the issue (as I tune my harp...), but when you say that all four subs acted the same way, did they all bypass both the crossover and the sub trim? Or was it that you had trouble in general integrating all four subs with your main speakers? If it was the former, did you try setting the crossover as high as it would go and leaving it in the loop?

I tried every possible way to set it up and Peter Alt worked with me in the beginning so we went every avenue believe me. I no longer have the RR2150 so I no longer have the problem. I gave it to my son and bought another NAD C720BEE, problem solved.

Well, I have the RR2150 now and previously auditioned a NAD C372(A 150 wpc integrated amp) for a month. They each are great .... or they're not ....... depending on who's listening. Sound is highly subjective.

I personally would never again own a NAD. I found it lacked resolution and was rather dull in the high end. The tone controls added nothing usefull. It seems NAD tunes their brand top be heavy in the upper lower end, at the expense of everything else. In a direct comparison between my CD player(w/headphone jack), and the C372, I found myself wondering where the resolution was on the C372.It was just dull dull dull, it sounded like the treble was turned to minus 8 or something, it was unfixable and most importantly, unenjoyable. The direct output of the CD player was perfect,no coloration or lack of resolution, just sweet music. I kept asking myself, what's wrong here? This is a top NAD amp and it's very disappointing. I thought of all the reviews I had read about it .... how NAD was supposed to be so "musical" or whatever the adjective may be. Great resolution? ....What were they thinking? I have no answer, other than we all hear differently.

The RR2150 compared to the NAD is more balanced and there's no bloated sound. The resolution is very good and the overall tone for me is neutral and well balanced. I'd call it easy on my ears. The bass appears(at this time) a little leaner on the 2150, but using the speaker EQ can change that(and it's user selectable), and it's not overly bloated.The power supply of the NAD was somewhat noisy also(suprising for a $900 unit), the RR2150 is very quiet.

On the other extreme, I found the Yamaha RX-777 to be such a screecher(harsh high end) that it was unlistenable. It sounded like Yamaha tunes theirs heavy on the treble. It was so off balance for me, it was unrecoverable and ulitmately unlistenable.


I can't say the RR2150 sounds vastly better than a Harman HK3480(sounds neutral and balanced to me), which I also own, but it is built with better components. The HK has a easily heard buzz from the power supply the moment it's plugged in.It's barely audible thru the speakers, but highly audible through the headphone jack, making headphones unusable with it. The RR2150 though, is absolutely silent ... no power supply noise. The headphone output is quiet and very good.

The bottom line is there's no perfect amp. It all about knowing what's most important for me/you, the listener, and finding the amp that comes the closest to that. I say closest because inevitably there will be some compromise, because no manufacturer can make an amp that fits the needs and wants of everyone. It's a two way street.

I'm a consumer like everyone else here. I have no stake in Outlaw or anyone else, it's all about the sound. As far as value, when it comes to sound, sure, sometimes cheaper products sound as good as more expensive ones, but there's no free lunch. .Compare the RR2150 to HK or NAD in the power supply.The Outlaw is dead quiet, the others are not. I'm no engineer, but I suspect filtering noise out of a power supply isn't cheap or easy, or else everyone would do it. Some people may never notice or hear the difference, but I do.

If NAD sounds better to you, I'm glad you found something you like..... as I said, everyone listens differently . How we listen also changes ..... hourly, daily, monthly ,over years or by night ....... we're not robots.

How does Outlaw's internet direct pricing compare with anyone else ? Do we get a better value? I have no idea, the prices are what they are, take it or leave it. I'm a consumer, so how a business comes up with their prices is up to them, and really none of my business. The magic formula ? Buy what you like up to what you can afford, period

-Garth

I was in Harvey Electronics today at the ABC Home/Carpet store in lower Manhattan on 17th st. & Bdwy, and got to listen to the C720BEE receiver. They also have my CD player there, (bought it there actually) which is the NAD C521BEE and ran them through some Sonas Faber's.

Unfortunately, the set up was not optimal, since one of the CD's used was a burned disc w/Mp3's and the other disc available wasn't really reference material. I'll probably go back next week w/my own CD's and give another listen, since the sales guy was more keen on that anyway.

What I'd really like to do however, is bring my RR2150 over there when it arrives, and hook it up to their stuff, so I can do a side by side comparison. I'm going to call the sales guy (Chris) and see if that's cool.

My initial impressions w/it though, was that it sounded a bit veiled on the mid bass range, which was a bit annoying. Resolution didn't really impress me all that much either, compared to some things I've heard before, but it wasn't that bad either. Of course the speakers are a big part of this, so to be fair, perhaps they weren't paird up as well as they could have been. Soundstage was IMO, a bit thin, but not completely out of reach.

To be honest though, I can't see how the RR2150 could be any worse than the 720BEE in terms of sound quality, but am looking foward to hearing it for myself. The ohter issue/point I feel should be mentioned though, is that for the $$ (they're both the same price MSRP -$599) the Outlaw offers some things which the NAD doesn't. Phono stage for one thing, is important. I'd have to shell out more dough for a phono pre-amp if I bought the NAD. Then there's the USB port, as well as dedicated input for Mp3 type devices.

So if the sound quality is at least the same as the NAD's, then it pretty much seems logical to me, to go for the Outlaw.

Doug