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#29561 - 08/18/05 01:31 PM Balanced inputs and what are they???
suffolk112000 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Jackson MI
Ok... the thread title pretty much sums up my question, but to add, how are the new balanced inputs the new 770 and 790 are going to have, going improve my listening pleasure over my current 770??

Enquiring minds want to know. laugh

Craig

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#29562 - 08/18/05 01:53 PM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
Doug917 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Shawnee, KS
Craig,

If you have a long run from your receiver/preamp to the amplifier they will cut down on th interference and so forth. They also have a higher gain of 6dB. What does this mean?.... If you are close to your amp don't worry about it and turn the volume up a little more to get to the same level.
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#29563 - 08/18/05 02:14 PM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
suffolk112000 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Jackson MI
Doug,

I keep learning about this... smile

The gain in db is a new one for me.
I posted in another forum about balanced and unbalanced and someone said they felt their sound was more "Dynamic" with balanced than with unbalanced.
Perhaps the increment in db gave them the illusion of having a better more "dynamic" sound. Hmmmmm.

Craig

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#29564 - 08/18/05 03:58 PM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
There are two sides to this debate, so there really is not a simple answer. Several good debates kicked up over the advantages or disadvantages of balanced interconnects shortly after the Model 990 was announced.

Balanced inputs were developed for use in studios, where the extreme levels of EMI and RFI "noise" tended to create a lot of grief for long interconnect runs. In those cases, there is a clear and undeniable advantage to balanced, which is why balanced are often recommended for long interconnect runs in home systems.

I'll link to a couple of good threads for you to read, but first here's a direct quote from forum member soundhound:

Quote:
Be careful what you wish for.

Completely balanced circuits not only add to the complexity of a circuit by a factor of two, with the resulting addition of noise and distortion, but they also cancel out even order distortion components such as the 2nd and 4th harmonic, the very ones you do not want to be cancelled. This leaves only the odd order (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th etc) distortion components laid bare, and these usually result in a sterile and hard sounding unit, even when the spec'd distortion is "vanishingly low".

All electronics generate distortion, however little, and the presence of the low order even harmonics (especially the 2nd harmonic) will cover up the presence of the higher order, harsher distortion components. Our ears are particularly sensitive to even vanishingly low levels of higher order/odd order distortion.

One of the major reasons tube amplifiers sound so natural is the fact that the distortion spectra is almost completely low order, with the 2nd harmonic being the most pronounced.

Plain old un-sexy unbalanced designs are the best sounding, and balanced circuits should only be used as a last resort to combat RFI/EMI picked up by extremely long cables (50' or more) that have to run through hostile environments.

Contrary to what marketing departments may have you believe, balanced circuits were developed for one purpose and one purpose only: to combat interference picked up by very long cables in professional installations. Their use actually involves a sonic penalty that is best avoided if at all possible.
That quote came from here , and there was some good debate following it in that thread. There is also this thread , and a few other discussions that have rattled around lately.
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#29565 - 08/18/05 08:19 PM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
sluggo Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 361
Loc: Plano, TX
If you've never heard an A/B comparison, I've never known anyone excited enough about the difference to replace an amp as nice as your 770 for just that feature.

If you do get a chance to A/B the difference, it's worth it just to see what difference you can discern. If you read in gonk's thread link, you'll see that (aside from technical discussion) perceptions vary.
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#29566 - 08/19/05 12:23 AM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
suffolk112000 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Jackson MI
You won't be seeing me with the upgrade itch for my 770 any time soon. I think I will be more than happy with it.
I know someone who will be in the market for a new amp some time over the next year and I have been trying to sway him towards the 770 with the new pricing.
He however seems to want to wait for the 790 which is fine I guess.
Sounds like it will be a power monster with the need for two dedicated circuits!

Craig

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#29567 - 08/19/05 08:34 AM Re: Balanced inputs and what are they???
Ritz Offline
Desperado

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 547
Loc: NJ/Beijing
I've never been able to discern a difference between balanced and unbalanced inputs UNLESS there was a lot of EMI in the environment. Balanced cables are inherently better at rejecting induced noise.

Cheers,
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