Can someone help? I read this over at Axiom Audio. This guy seems to be getting the run around.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showfla...sb=5&o=0&fpart=

Thanks

"During this whole mess, did Outlaw ever offer to send a replacement 770 to see if your problem was a defective unit?"

You were alot more patient than I would have been. The problem was the 770...I would have returned it and ordered a new one! Can't believe Outlaw didn't suggest this? This is exactly what the 30Day "satisfaction" guarantee is for!

I did not post my expierance with the 950/770 to say that Outlaw products are not good, rather that I was disappointed in the CS about this issue. The Outlaws arrived here on 01/07 and I felt after about the third call, a replacement should have been sent, no questions asked, not to expect the customer to play trouble shooter for weeks, and then to start knocking my M80's, that was a bad mistake. Since posting this here, I have had two other reports of the same issue, and as for posting on the Outlaw forum, as I stated earlier, there were a few posts about heat issues on the 770, and the one from last April, which as of Feb, had not been resolved, and there was no reason to post there and start a war. ;-) In my older age, I just don't have the patience that I use to have, and as well as I like the performance/quality of the 770, with the reluctance to just send a new 770, I gave up. Off in a few hours to audition B&K, and see what I think. BBQ party weather is here, have one next weekend, so need to make a decision and get some power soon. LOL

Is this an exception to Outlaws great customer service....should not they have immediately replaced the unit and not made the customer become a "tech" trouble-shooter.

Unfortunately, there's almost always more to a story than what can be realized when reading through a person's posts. Please understand that it would be unreasonable and unwise to simply swap a unit out every time someone complained of an issue without properly pursuing likely causes. The reality with electronics is that there are many variables and factors that can be the culprit in a particular issue. That said, we are able to remedy more than 95% of our technical calls without having to swap a product out. This means that an hour or two of actual troubleshooting, often saves the customer days and weeks of aggravation only to find that the new product is experiencing the same issue. Look around here at our customer service record, I am confident you will see that it speaks for itself.

As for this specific instance, we are looking at the chain of events to ensure that the best decisions were made at each step along the way. While it may be too late to resolve this issue for this gentleman, we will certainly use these events as a means to examine our troubleshooting procedures and overall customer service model so that we may continue to improve and provide the absolute best customer service in the industry.

I read through the thread at Axiom and I can understand his frustration.

But the thing I found most interesting was his comment concerning performance. He said in his post "I do want to make it clear that I was very impessed with the 950/770 combo"

He then replaced the 950/770 system with a Parasound Halo system that costs at least 5 times as much as the Outlaw system. To me, that's quite a statement to the performance of the Outlaw equipment.

Very curious indeed. And not to state the obvious, but the guy did indeed do everything I would think of. However, I did see a 400+ wattage usage on that post, so maybe the rear channel for example was being overdriven?

Scott,
As you say the complete story is not always in a post. Would it be possible for you to post in this thread of what the problem was with the 770 he returned ( if even one exists?) I would be curious to know if you guys did find one.

Just my $0.01 worth ( used to be $0.02, but the dollar sank again...)

Was there any follow-up to this story? I would have to imagine that they would ahve trouble shot this amplifier by now.

As the original user stated:
I certainly would not be scared away from a defective amp and having to pay for shipping for a replacement (though I'd hear it from the wife).

Was the amp defective?
Was it a problem with the 950's signal to the amp?

We were unable to reproduce any issues with this unit. It was sold shortly thereafter as a B-stock and no problems were ever reported.

Scott

I am really curious if the impedance of an Axiom driver, while not faulty, may have been dropping under use and causing the thermal overload.

The original user went to Parasound Halos which supposedly work with no problems. Is the thermal overload on the Outlaw amp set "more sensitive" for low impedance drivers? His Axiom M80s are 4 ohm speakers. If the impedance dropped to 3 or even 2 ohms at loud listening levels, would this be the cause?

There are enough low impedance speakers hooked up to Outlaw amps (including a number of Axiom users, Polk users, and others) that I would doubt a design trait of the amps could be the root cause.

For the last two years I have been using Onix Reference speakers that are 4 ohm and have had zero issues with my 770.

Yes, but if most low impedance speakers remain in a "workable impedance range" if I can say that, the amp will work flawlessly. For example, if the speaker in operation stayed close to its nominal impedance, there would be no heating issue for the amp rated to work at that impedance.

If the speaker "worked" but its impedance dropped below the amp's rated operational limit, the amp would run hotter and potentially trip the thermal protection circuit.

There has to be an explanation. I guess I am having a hard time understanding where the problem was. I can only think that the speaker may be faulty as far as the Outlaw amp sees it but not a problem as far as the Parasound amp sees it.

The Anthem amps can take a fork across the leads with no damage. Of course the protection circuitry kicks in but the point is that some amps handle lower impedance loads better than others. I know, not the best example - I don't have a pair of forks for my mains speakers so I don't need an amp that can drive forks. Nor do I want to pay the 3x price tag of the Anthem compared to the Outlaw.

Am I making any sense?

Yeah, you are making sense - and while I doubt it would be likely if the speaker were behaving normally (my understanding has always been that speakers rated at 4 ohms will actually vary from around 4 ohms down to perhaps 2.5 ohms or lower), it is possible that the speakers in question dipped lower than normal for some reason and produced the behavior. I guess my thought was that if it were a common behavior for Axioms there would have been other instances (too many Axioms around being driven by Outlaw amps, not to mention other nominal 4 ohm speakers like Polk LSi, Jed M's Onix's, and others) and if it were a defect in the amp it would have been turned up when tested by Outlaw. I suspect we'll never know exactly what the problem was in this case...

I own a pair of the Axiom M80's and I have not had any problems with the Outlaw amps.

The Parasound equipment is reported to sound somewhat better than the Outlaw equipment but, he did have to shell out a lot more and blow his budget, though he was able to afford it. The Halos are also beautifully finished which is factored into the cost. There are better amplifiers out there than the Outlaws but few if any come close to the quality to price ratio (extreme value IMO).

The bottom line is that he had a very power hungry requirement that the Outlaw multichannel amp could not handle. That being said, the Parasound multichannel amp could not handle it either and had the same overheating issue. No, it was not a problem with the speakers. He had to go with a setup somewhat closer to monoblocks to take care of the heat issue. If he had the Outlaw monoblocks and installed them with enough clearance to allow for adequate natural convective (or preferably forced air cooling), he would likely not have had a problem.

I don't, nor likely will ever, have a room the size he did to fill with that much power. In fact most people will likely not have more than 1500-3000 sq ft of space at most for their home theaters and should have absolutely no problems with the Outlaw amps.

My modest room will be approximately 265 sq ft and when it is done, I will either get the 125W or 200 W per channel Outlaw amp knowing that either choice will not give me any trouble.

In reading both threads, there was no clear description of the problem, solution or outcome and it could cause concern to potential buyers of either product. I realize now it was simply a matter of a very unique installation requirement. Buyers can rest assured that a combination of Axiom M80s and Outlaw amps will work when set up correctly for the particular installation.

BruceH,

I've owned a lot of exotic gear over the years. IMO, I feel that the Outlaw gear is the steal of the century backed up with the best customer service I've seen .
The 770 has 7 seperate amps however they share the same monster power source. This amp is no doubt a tank .I run mine on it's own 20 amp isolated ground circuit for good measure. BTW, I also ran 4 Magnepan MMG's off my Outlaw with no problems, however I'm now running the Axiom M80's, vp150 and qs4's. The mmg's are in my office .

I could go on and on but I'll spare everyone the sos. The bottom line is that this amp is awesome and worth trying.It's really hard to say why the guy had problems and we can only guess at this point....Good Luck! I hope this helps.

Tom

Tom,

What do you think of the 770 with the MMGs? I recently moved to a new office that's got a lot more space so I'm thinking of picking up a pallet of MMGs for studio and "office music" use. The "kids" in the studio like their Mackie and Genelec monitors, but I prefer the sound of the Maggies (when room size permits).

Cheers,

Ritz,

The MMG's are great for the price and sound similar to its big brother. The 770 drove them effortlessly. The sound is transparent as it should be.
I would demo a pair of the MMG's to make sure you like the sound.