I've had the 770/950 combination since September, 2003, and up until 3 weeks ago everything worked fine. Then, for whatever reason, the front channels on the 770 quit producing an output.

Over the past few weeks I've had a few conversations with Outlaw's telephone service representative Steve, and one today with Scott, to see if the problem could be fixed. It can't so I have to send the 770 to them for repair.

My disappointment isn't with Steve and Scott - they were sincere and tried to help. But sending this monster in will $54.00. I asked if they determine the faulty amp was not caused by anything I did, would I be reimbursed for the shipping fee - the answer was no.

Call me old-fashioned but a product that costs this much should work for the duration of it's warranty, and if it doesn't, the customer should have it repaired or replaced for free. Had I bought an amp at a local retailer I could return it without a fee.

Sorry - just a little disallusioned. Now I'm out $54.00 bucks, and, more importantly, without an amp for 3-4 weeks.

I'll look locally when I'm ready to upgrade - I may stick with mail-order but now I know there is a definite downside. So.....buyer's beware.

If you had bought an amplifier that is comparable to the Outlaw 770 from a local retailer you probably would have paid a much higher price. You might have paid fifty percent to one hundred percent more than what you paid for the Outlaw product, not to mention the sales tax. There is an advantage to buying online, but if you are willing to accept the advantages you must accept the drawbacks too. It is not fair to complain about The Outlaws because you sure didn't complain about what you saved buying from them. I can understand that you may be unhappy, but I am surprised that you didn't understand your responsibilities before you made your purchase. If The Outlaws cried foul I would not say they were being unreasonable.

I've been pretty aware of the ups and downs of customer service lately (partly because Mrs. gonk is about to change jobs and leave the customer service call center environment after five years, but particularly since I ran rather heavily afoul of Best Buy's online store while trying to buy a new TV). I do understand JFro's frustration. It always sucks when something breaks. And while a product like the 770 should last forever, there are inevitably a percentage that will experience failures. Buying locally does avoid shipping fees and can offer convenience in the event of needed service, but as Oil Can pointed out, it does come at a cost.

JFro, I wish you luck in getting your 770 back on track as soon as possible.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

A part of having a ‘brick-and-mortar’ store near you is that every customer pays a bit of the ‘rent’ in every purchase. Every customer also pays the cost of shipping items to and from that storefront in the cost of the items sold. This is a cost regardless of whether repair is needed or not.

I suppose that the only way around an individual having to pay shipping charges is to spread the potential cost around. This is a common principle of insurance – a certain small cost is shared and paid by many in lieu of a higher cost that may need to be paid by a few. Would you join a ‘shipping cost sharing’ club? Everyone has the option of joining for $2 - $5 per item they buy and if they do need to ship something back for repair under warranty, the cost of shipping comes out of the club’s fund. But who is going to take on the setting up and managing of such a fund?

Of course Outlaw could choose to take on the cost, but then they would have to charge more for each item sold to cover the cost. The money has to come from somewhere, right? It seems Outlaw chooses to keep prices lower. Needing repair and spending the $54 is a letdown, but which of us would rather pay hundreds more up front somewhere else to avoid this maybe-it-will, maybe-it-won’t occurrence from happening? We who buy Outlaw equipment are saving a bundle over comparable gear from other sources, even with shipping charges for warranty repair.

I've gotta chime in as well.

The cost of shipping, and the cost of warranty repairs, needs to get covered somehow - regardless as to whether you buy in store - or direct / online. An in-store's shipping charges are built into their selling price - as are the manufacturers expected average repair costs. Outlaw no doubt builds an allowance for warranty costs (including return shipping) into its selling price as well. Holding the owner of a defective unit responsible for shipping a unit in for repair may not be all that pleasant for those who must do so, but it does contribute to keeping the cost down for the vast majority of owners who don't need warranty work.

Outlaw's policies and practices are very clearly stated - both the obligations on the buyer and on Outlaw - and form part of the contract between the two.

I had some warranty work done a few months back and when additional charges were incurred in the shipping process to get the repaired unit back to me to my address in Canada, Steve and Scott agreed, without reservation, to cover those costs. Not because they are nice guys (which they are), but because they were clearly bound to do so under the contract between us.

So long as they continue to live up to their obligations, you can't fault them for asking others to do the same.

Jeff Mackwood

Curious, because the amps are very modular, & only a couple of channels went out, does Outlaw allow the customer to return only the amp PC boards for the failed channels? Of course, you'd also need to verify the xformer was ok, but a simple voltmeter could verify that. It could even be as simple as the B+ fuses on the specific amp modules. I'd probably check that before I would have sent anything back. Of course, if your not a DIY type, you'd have to return the whole heavy amp.

ok, so i just read through the site a little. i cant find anything about warranties. i am sure i am overlooking it... anyway, my thought on a warranty is this. if you buy a product from a company that guarantess said product will work for x number of years, and it breaks before x number of years have passed, it is THEIR responsibility to fix it for FREE! be it taking it somewhere to get it fixed or having to mail it off, you should not have to incur any added cost because they produced a product that failed. i realize that products break and electronics fail, but when they do, it is on the company who made the inferior product to make it like new again. its not the buyers fault that the product broke, it is the company's. its really not much of a warranty if you have to pay for anything to be fixed. granted more and more car manufacturers are including deductibles with their 100k warranties, but i would have to combat that with the thought that that is crap too. A WARRANTY IS WORTH NOTHING IF YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY TO GET IT FIXED. why not go the step further and reduce the cost of the product by the amount that the company predicts it will spend fixing problems with its units, because hey not everyone is going to have a problem. but it could be you that does, and when you have to pay to get something fixed it would piss you off. just think if a product could cost $200 less but came with no warranty, that would save a lot of people a lot of money including the company who would get paid to fix their mistake, but it would cost numerous ones A LOT through no fault of their own. it should be all or nothing, either pay the entire cost of getting it fixed or don't waste my time implying a warranty is present at all and save me the money up front. now having said that, not very many people would buy their products if they didn't come with a warranty, so why not do the courteous thing and fully cover any defect/malfunction their consumer has. it is bad enough that you have to lose use of a product to get it fixed, but to have to pay too really bites. they should pay you for the inconvenience of having to be without their faulty product! talk about customer service being so great...

[This message has been edited by curegeorg (edited April 16, 2004).]

Take a look at the manuals posted here for every product Outlaw has ever made. The full warranty is included at the back of each manual. Here's an excerpt from the 770 warranty:



This is only a portion of the warranty, so I would suggest grabbing the whole PDF to see the rest of it.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

I am new here & have been considering Outlaw products as I am building a dedicated HT/Music room.
I, too am disappointed with this. I if spent any amount of money on a high quality product on the internet, I have come to expect excellent service.

There are too many other companies that are looking to make me a customer for life & decisions like this will be weighed heavily.

The reason why this business model(internet or mail order) works so well is because of word of mouth & customer service.

So why would a company not want to take care of this? Is $54 going to break the company? Is it because the company would have to charge more to everyone else?

While I understand others on here who commented about the differences with B&M stores & here, but they are not that different. If this happened to you & you had to pay to get this shipped it is only $54, right? What if it happens again in 6 months? After the warranty is up? Then what? will the company that charged you $54 take care of you? Piece of mind can be priceless!!

Just my opinion......

Joe

[This message has been edited by joesmud (edited May 11, 2004).]

^ After the warranty is up, what will the brick and mortar store do? Fix it for free? You think only one amp is going to have to be repaired? That has never happened.

Yeah, it always sucks when something breaks, but the shipping issue should have been known ahead of time. Like gonk showed, it's in the manual which is downloadable. This is one of the pitfalls of buying online. I think it's very fair to split shipping costs with the company.

How much of it is related to online buying though? How long would you have to wait for the store to send in the amp, have it fixed and return it? Don't say they can just give you a new one in the meantime as that will vary by store and will NOT happen every time.

As far as them determining if the user is at fault, does anyone really think Outlaw will try to screw people and blame every problem on them? I sure don't. You didn't drop the amp or do something crazy like run it below 1 ohm at full power for hours on end did you? What is there to worry so much about in that regard? How would that be any different from the B&M store?

The only difference I really see is that he has to pay $54 more than he thought. That does suck, but it really isn't all that bad. You knew it was a possibility when you purchased online. If you are so strapped for cash that $54 is a fortune, then why are you buying an amp that costs like &1800?

PS, most every time I say 'you' it's really a collective 'you'.