I'll post this on the Outlaw To Outlaw forum as well hoping more people come across this...

I checked out my box in the basement and noticed I have a 20 amp thats not being used. Im going get some 10 or 12 gauge wire and run it to the theatre in hopes of using it for the 770 when I get it.

Does the 770 draw massive amounts, enough so that I should only put the 770 on that line? Or can I add a few more smaller components to it, like the 950 or my TV? Any advice/opinions will be appreciated. Oh, and I'll have 770 running from the "High Current" plug on the Panamax 5300.

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Play it LoUd!!

I'm glad you asked this question because it's going to spur me to do something I've been meaning to do for some time now. I have exactly the setup you are proposing. It's working fine and I have no worry that I'm overloading the circuit, but I've always been curious what my amp draw was on the circuit supplying the HT stuff.

I have the Panamax 5300 with a 770, 950, cd player, dvd player and a 36" direct view TV all running through it and I've haven't had a bit of trouble with this setup. Even though the 770 is rated for 1800 watts maximum power consumption, I doubt it gets to more than about 1200 in my system even at reference levels, which I've only done once.

What I'm going to do is take an amp meter home with me today and just see what the draw on that circuit actually is and get back to you. I'll play something a reference level with all channels driven. (That's if the wife will let me. I know, Bing Crosby's "White Christmas". That might work!)

I'll let you know what I find out.


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Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill in Texas (edited December 23, 2002).]

Excellent..thanks Bill! I would like to have all you use on the line, minus the TV. The TV is on the line with my Subwoofer and Xbox. I tried to do some seperating.

Sounds like you have a plan indeed! Can't wait to hear the results If the wife gets upset, blame it on me, LOL.

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Play it LoUd!!

If the total load is too much, you'll know soon enough: the circuit breaker will trip

In theory, the amp should be alone on the circuit, since at full output it will draw near the maximum current rated for your circuit. In practice, I think you are good to put more than just the amp on it. I would avoid other heavy current draws like TVs, projectors etc. on the same circuit however.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 23, 2002).]

I'd have to agree with soundhound and if I had my drothers the TV would be on the circuit with my sub and protected with my Tripp Isobar, but unfortunitely that's on a sidewall and I have no other outlets to use at this time.

I've decided rather than using Bing, I'll use Roy Orbison "Black & White Night". It is a DTS soundtrack that makes full use of all the speakers in the system. And just for grins, I'll try all speakers set to small and then large as well. See what that does.

I'll play "Oh, Pretty Woman" for the wife and see if that won't get me by.


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Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill in Texas (edited December 23, 2002).]

Yeah..The next biggest draw is my TV, thats why I will have it on a different circuit with the sub. With the amp, I'd like to add the 950 atleast. I don't think I'll be drawing to much with the dvd and cd players regardless of where they go. Their consumption is minimal. Thanks soundhound, you have set my mind at ease..for now, LOL.

And Bill...your plan is getting more articulate by the minute Keep me posted!

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Play it LoUd!!

Putting the 770 on it's own circuit couldn't hurt. For a point of reference, I melted an APC Pro8TV surge protector with my 750 while watching the pod race at very high levels. Neither the 15 amp breaker on the APC nor the 20 amp breaker on the circuit kicked before the receptacle (in the surge protector) failed.

P.S.

Not to hijack the thread, but I am thinking about adding a pair of 200's to finish out my 6.1 system. If I add another circuit, is it best to add it to the same side of the load center, or on the opposite side to balance the load?

SpOoNmAn,
Here is a quote from the 770 Owners Manual regards volt/amp requirements:

I had 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits installed for the "media center". I did not want anything non-related (like lights, etc.) on the the same circuit(s) and therefore hoped to avoid any problems that might come up, like noise or overloading, using a "non-dedicated" circuit. So far, no problems- I'm glad I did it this way- one less thing to worry about.

That's strange. A surge protector uses a metal oxide varistor, and it's function is to protect for over-voltage from such things as lightling strikes, and other spikes. A varistor works by shorting out when the input voltage goes higher than a set amount, usually 200 volts or so. When it does this, it trips the circuit breaker in the surge protector box, or the breaker on your AC service feed. How you managed to melt it with a current overload is unusual. Are you sure it wasn't some other component in your surge protector box?

I would NEVER connect any super power amps into any device other than a dedicated circuit. Most of these amps(the ATI's esp. have surge protection built in). The engineers i have spoke to always tell me to plug directly into the wall outlet. I upgraded to a 20amp/hospital grade and made a better improvement than running into a panamax I was using.Theres an interesting thread on AVS Forem about this very topic!

A surge filter is OK to have between a power amp and the wall outlet. A power line FILTER, such as the TrippLite "Isobar" that has inductors, capacitors etc in-line with the AC is not a good idea because these components have a finite amount of current they can handle. By contrast, a surge protector is nothing more than a MOV across the power line which consumes no power, and is not in series with the AC current. It's only function is to protect from over-voltages which can be very costly for equipment. These two devices are quite different and get confused by people all the time. Of course, the best way to protect against lightning etc. is simply to unplug your components, but you can't always be there to do this

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 23, 2002).]

A surge filter is OK to have between a power amp and the wall outlet. A power line FILTER, such as the TrippLite "Isobar" that has inductors, capacitors etc in-line with the AC is not a good idea because these components have a finite amount of current they can handle. By contrast, a surge protector is nothing more than a MOV across the power line which consumes no power, and is not in series with the AC current. It's only function is to protect from over-voltages which can be very costly for equipment. Of course, the best way to protect against lightning etc. is simply to unplug your components

I was considering getting the "Ultimate Outlet" to put between the outlet and the amplifier. They come highly recommended...anyone have any opinions on them?? Or is this overkill? Id rather not spend $400.00 on it if it doesnt really improve anything.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/ultimate_outlet.asp

Theres info on it

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Play it LoUd!!

I would save my money and buy a bunch of DVDs. If you must get something, get a good surge protector if you are at all fearful of lightning strikes, otherwise it's not worth the money for a power amp. When a company starts saying that _their_ AC will improve things like imaging, pace, soundstaging, run like hell. As long as the wall power is at all within normal parameters, that's all an amp needs. Remember, the amp runs on _DC_ that's produced inside the amp, and there's a transformer to isolate the wall power from the rectifiers and filters. These do all that is needed unless your power is really crappy.

For low level equipment like preamps, it's a good idea to get something like the TrippLite "Isobar" filters which offer protection from surges and filter out any RF interferrence that might creep into your AC.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 24, 2002).]

Sounds good soundhound. Ill try the panamax 5300, but will look into this Isobar you so fondly speak of

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Play it LoUd!!

I don't own stock in TrippLite or anything They make stuff that's as good as anyting out there, and costs what it should. Keep in mind that if your AC has a high level of harmonic distortion (the average is about 3% THD) _nothing_ short of local re-generation is going to clean it up. No filter will do it...nada. RF can be filtered out, and to some degree EMI can be also filtered, but it's gets harder as the frequency of the pollution goes down into the audio band. It is _extremely_ rare for EMI to get this bad unless you share a power transformer with a foundry or something like that. Truthfully, pedestrian things like the acoustics of your listening room have a much greater impact on what you hear than anything in the 'tweak' realm. Anyway, I see I am ranting, and should go to bed

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 24, 2002).]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you, but playing our system at 00dB got me a broom, then a mop and finally the vacuum cleaner and dust rag Monday night. Tuesday was spent with the inlaws and Wednesday with my family. By the way, Merry Christmas all.

Half way through my test I started to realize that what I was doing would be only be conclusive to my particular system, but then again may be of some help to others anyway. I saw that there would be a lot of contributing factors that would change everyone's individual data. Things such as source line input voltage (mine 124 volts), source material, processing, and above all speakers (size, number of drivers, rated watts handling and efficiency).

So, I guess I'll start with telling you what is in my system that is pertinent to the test. I'm runnning a 7.1 Reference Paradigm setup consisting of 2-40s for mains, a CC center, 4-20s surrounds and a PW 2200 sub. The TV is a 36" Sony XBR.

With the TV, 950 and Panamax all at standby mode I had a reading of .2 amps. Turning on the 950 triggers the panamax to energize and also brings on the 770. With the audio at idle it draws 2.5 amps. Turning on the TV and we jump to 4.2 amps. Ok, time for a little source material.

My normal listening volume range for DVD source material is usually between -15dB and -05dB depending on the recording and my mood. I decide to use -10dB (average) and ear piercing 00dB (way too loud!) as my reference marks to use for this test.

Something to note here. This system is set up in what is normally considered a formal living room and was supplied with only one circuit. So, the sub has had to go on that circuit too, but as you will see, it's not too much of a concern for this interim setup.

Ok, at -10dB with evreything running the load was only 6.5 amps. At freaking the cats and wife 00dB my system only musters a 10.2 amp draw. Of which .7 amps is the sub that isn't going through the panamax.

So, in conclusion SpOoNmAn. I guess we can say I'm safe. On the other hand, if your driving bigger and/or less efficient speakers, the resulting amp draws will increase proportionally.

This was fun! Oh, and my wife would like your address. I think she wants to tell you something.

Good day and Happy New Year.


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Bill

LOL Bill..I like the address comment

With all that, only 10.2 amps being drawn? That sound odd, but numbers dont lie. My sub alone supposedly draws 8.

That was a good read, and I appreciate the effort. I would love to do that sometime, just because I'm curious in nature.

Tell your wife I live in a cave with no address, just an outlet for electricity

Happy Holidays Bill!

*Note* My speakers (DefTechs all around) are all rated at 91dB for efficiency. That shouldnt stray to far from your Paradigm setup.

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Play it LoUd!!

8 amps on your sub?! At 120 volts that would be 960 watts. Wow! Drawing .7 amps at 124 volts mine is using about 87 of it's 250 rated watts with the volume knob at about 12:30.

I think you're fine too with the DefTech. My Paradigms run from 89dB to 91dB as well. Size and number of drivers will be the determining factor here. The 20s are rated for 100 watt max., the CC at 130 watt max and the 40s at 150 watt max. input. So you see the 770 is just loafing along in my system and I have enough headroom I can see stars.

Best of luck with your upgrades. The 770 is one fine amp and it sure brought out the best in my Paradigms. I'm sure it will your DTs as well.


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Bill

i have a dedicated 15 amp circuit for lexicon cp3,acurus a250w amp,acurus 200w/3ch amp, adcom 60w/ch, cd/dvd player, lazerdisk player, 50in big screen, x box game system, vcr, and a 250w sub and never had any problems in a 22 by 12 foot room even at high volume levels. i recently switched to the 950 prepro/770 combo and listen to movies at reference levela (00) without any problems.

All of your comments have put any worries I had to rest..thanks everyone

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Play it LoUd!!

I used to do professional sound reinforcement for a spell and we were using Crown amps and EAW speakers, a full array that had 25,000 watts of power. At 120V, you would expect this thing to have needed 208A of power. Well, we decided to see what the actual duty cycle was of some different types of music pushing full volume thru this set up. We rented a 150A generator for an outdoor setup, knowing we didn't need a full 208A right off the bat. We put a current meter on the generator and compared it to the one that came with the generator, both were in synch. So we played some various types of rock/rap/jazz/classical and white/pink noise at high volumes at our college we worked at. We could not get the current draw above 35Amps, we were shocked. But the duty cycle of the music was such that the amps were never all running in synch for max consumption.

The 770 situation is very similar and the testing posted earlier herein verifies the same findings. Take the TV's and other components out of the mix and the current will drop to something that is like 30% of the duty cycle needed.

Does this mean I will not try and give my set up the most juice I can, absolutely not, I am trying to get as much of a dedicated 15A source as possible to power this puppy. Just so I can have peace of mind if anything. Do I feel I need a 20A circuit? Nope, not with mostly 8 ohm speakers running. If I were running 4 ohms all the way around, I would definitely set up a 20A circuit dedicated then. I noticed a big change in one of our Amps when I had some JBL subs for an auditorium rewired for 4 ohms from 8 ohms. The AMP finally started to get warm and the speakers finally started playing loud like they should in the setup.

Coincidentally, word of caution, never use 1/4" speaker connectors with a 10,000 watt AMP. I learned this on one of the channels (5000Watt potential) when I cupped the tip and ring with my hand unsuspectingly. I knew better, but in my quest to play with such power, I got careless. Nothing major, just a numb hand for the rest of the day, no scarring thankfully. Sure makes you love and respect all that power.

IMO your post is exactly on point. The beast is RATED (probably fused or otherwise protected as well) to draw a maximum of 15 amperes.

I find this thread very interesting. I'm glad to see somebody with the know-how actually took the time to test in a real world environment. Even though each setup can vary somewhat, I'm glad to see those findings seem to coincide with my take on the matter.

I have a dedicated 20A cirtcuit for my HT equipment, but all of my HT equipment is on the circuit, including the TV and sub. I figure this would be OK because I'm only using 6 channels on the Outlaw 770, with fairly efficient 6-8ohm speakers. I figured the chances of the 770 actually drawing more than 15A were pretty much nill, and I still think that likely to be the case. I certainly haven't had any problems driving the system loud enough to make my wife yell at me.

One thing I did do is put the 770 on its own PanaMAX 5100, with everything else on a second 5100. I figured that way I could be pretty sure of giving the amp a full 15A if it ever really needed it.

I don't know...I kinda like it that all the lights in the house dim when I power on my home theatre!

You might want to look at the isobar UltraCopy surge suppressor. It's designed to work with 20 amp lines.

Jeff