I use Alon 4 mains with Centris series Alon center and surrounds. My mains go down to 20hz, so I dont run a sub. Dont want to.

My problem is this.

One(1): The cross over in the set up only goes down to 40hz. I dont want my ouitlaw to keep the lows from the Mains. I have the sub, in teh set up turned off. Any way for me to get all my signal to the mains?

Two(2):I need to get a blu ray player. The oppo, Panasonic and Samsung all have the same problem as my Outlaw. They cant send the unfiltered full frequencey signal to the mains. What the heck? For just listening to music and watching DVD or Blue ray I can't have the bass go to the mains? What blueray player can I buy?

I think you've overlooked one aspect of the bass management setup: speaker "size" settings.

1: If the fronts are set to "large" the crossover isn't applied. Thus it doesn't matter what setting you use for the fronts.

2: I've not used the analog output from the Panasonic or Samsung, but I beta tested the BDP-83. You might want to look at my [url=http://prillaman.net/setup-950bdp83.html]BDP-83/950 setup guide, but if you have no sub there are three things that needs to change: you need to set the 950's analog bass management switch to "off", you need to set the front speakers to "large" in the BDP-83's setup, and you need to disable the sub in the BDP-83's setup.

Thanks. I Have already set the Outlaw as you described. I was confused because even when you set the fronts to large, the xcrossing still shows 40hz as the lowest setting even with the bass management off.

The Oppo issue I am not able to explain cause I'm a newbie. I'm looking for the post from Oppo about it. They said they cant send the bass signal to the mains. They were working on a firmware update, or at least they promised it to the consumer who couldnt get bass to his mains. Then the poster went on to list the same problem with the BD 3600 and panisonic 80. I also ran accross the conversation with the Panasonic. I'm looking for the post so I can describe what they were saying. It may have been format specific.

If you Know for sure its not a problem, I feel relieved. I just wish I knew how to describe what they said. being new, I dont know if Im describing the problem correctly. I want to spend my money wisely with a Blu Ray player.

Found it! I think its you that replied. It was Gonk anyway. you just said you were surprised it wasnt cought before by the testers. You said they may have been using powered mains...

"I have had an issue with my BD-83 since I bought it, and after spending some time with Oppo via telephone, it appears that there is a flaw with either their firmware or hardware. While it will affect a relatively minor number of users, it will be a major problem for those users, so I thought that I would give you all a heads-up about it.

The problem will affect those who are using the analogue outputs and who do not have a standalone subwoofer. If you turn the subwoofer "off" in the setup menu, the LFE channel should be mixed into the main channels. The player is not doing this -- you will simply lose the LFE channel altogether. They were able to replicate this issue today at the Oppo facility, so the problem is not with my unit but rather with the player itself.

Worse, they tried rolling back to the past couple of firmware updates to see if it was something that was somehow messed up with the current firmware, and they all have the same problem. Oppo told me that they are going to have their engineers work with the decoder manufacturers to see if it is something that can be fixed in the firmware, or if it is a limitation with the hardware.

An obvious workaround for people who have powered towers is to use the line-level LFE output of the Oppo and hook it into the line-level inputs on the subwoofer section of your speakers. However, in my case, therein lies the rub.

I have an older Krell processor (Showcase) that lacks HDMI inputs, so having a player with internal HD audio decoding and analogue outputs is critical for me. I also have Vandersteen Quatro speakers, which have built-in powered subwoofers that must be hooked up speaker-level (there are no line-level inputs.) So right now there is nothing that I can do to get the LFE working for TrueHD and DTS-MA. I am using the digital outs for regular Dolby Digital and DTS lossy, and my Krell downmixes the LFE just fine. But right now, I hae to choose between HD audio or LFE. Not a good choice. (And no, I just bought the Quatros, so I am not upgrading the Krell right now!)

I will keep you posted as Oppo gives me more information. Like I said, this problem will affect a relatively small number of users, but it is a huge problem for us! For those of you who are using the analogue outputs and do not have a standalone subwoofer, you should check this out immediately."

Amazon review.

The '83 decodes all advanced audio formats: Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD Master Audio, etc. So the lossless audio is available via 7.1 analog outs as well as PCM over HDMI. You don't need an A/V receiver that includes decoders for these formats - the player does the work. Speaker management provided by the '83 makes the 7.1 analog outputs usable, but with some limitations: The bass management frequency is fixed at 80 Hz, and there are limitations to speaker distance delays.

This has come up before, and when it has I've seen comments from Neuromancer (a long-time beta tester for OPPO Digital with some extensive experience with a lot of different manufacturers' players) that consistently said the same thing: players typically can't mix the subwoofer channel of 5.1 tracks into the left/right channels. It is a typical limitation for players with onboard decoding, even before Blu-ray entered the picture. I don't know if OPPO will be able to get the decoder manufacturer to change that. No other players that I know of will do this currently, and I doubt any manufacturers are making an effort to change it.

The 950 is already taken care of for digital inputs: with the sub off and the mains set to large, it will mix the LFE channel into the fronts.

Thanks for your help and time. If I understand your answer correctly... your saying use the 950 to decode audio instead of the blue ray? So with blue ray its only gonna do like dolby direct? Kinda defeats the purpose of an oppo.... wow, dissapointing. Might as well just get a cheap player than. I could go 7 sides of stupid and add a sub. Or sell my 950.. What would you do?

For DVD, go ahead and use the coaxial or optical. For Blu-ray, I'd still use the multichannel analog. You will be better off with the lossless audio. Granted, you won't have the LFE channel, but based on the specs below :
even the Alons could struggle a bit with LFE tracks.

Hey, been stewing over everything. I have come to the understanding that I dont understand to much. I have decided that i want it all. I guess that means I'll add a sub. Problem i have now is every powered sub I look at in a under $400.00 price range doesnt go even to 20hz. Is there more to it than just "How low can you go?" Is there more to the story than just being able to go as low as 20hz? If so, what do I look for?

Another Idea was to just add a 2 channel amp. the cross overs in side my Alon's are seperate. there is six posts that I have tr-wired with 12 guage wire. I could disconnect the 12's and use the lfe to send a clean signal to the 2 channel and then power the two 12 seperately from the rest of the tower?

To get down to 20Hz will probably take more than $400. As with any speaker, there's more to it than just how low and how loud, but those are the two most commonly used measures of performance.

The LFM-1 Compact goes to 25Hz at -2dB, so if you look at -3dB it probably goes to 23Hz or 24Hz even without any room effect to improve on that frequency response. This is similar to my LFM-1, albeit with a few less dB of maximum output. The LFM-1 Plus will reach 18Hz at -2dB if you run it in maximum extension mode, but it's $150 more than your $400 budget.
It's an option. You still have that -3dB point of 29Hz, of course, so a sub like the LFM-1 Compact could actually perform better and might (depending on what amp you buy) cost less. It would also take up more space in your room and avoid the need to add another component to the shelves of your equipment rack. As with most decisions we make in this hobby, it's all about the trade-offs...

I recently purchased and LFM-C and LFM-Plus.
Both were B Stock. The LFM plus B stock is currently $474 with free shipping, which is awfully close to your budget. Other than the subs being about an inch higher than they were listed in their descriptions (which affected where I could place them), I have been very pleased. I use them in one very large room for music only, with 2 LCR speakers driven by an RR2150. I'm waiting for a while before I post a review, but I can say that I'm very pleased with the subs.

I appreciate all the help and input. I had a two channel 550 watt amp already. (Peavey 8.5) so I built a 5ft enclosure tuned to 20 hrz with a 450 watt rms 12" speaker I already had. (Bass for auto industry from 15 years ago when I was even more stupid). The other 550 side I'm gonna use for a mono switcher that i had to send signal from the B from my 950 to the 550 side, to three sets of other speakers ran to my Lani, garage and living room. It works out to a 4 ohm load on each side at 550 watts. But to get the 4 ohm on the B side I have to run two sets of the other 12" speakers in the the other rooms. (16 ohm 12" speakers)