Ok, I need some help from the experienced.

I am going back and forth on whether I need a 5 channel or 7 channel amp.

I have a nice movie theater setup that is currently configured for 5.1 but has wires pre-run for possible 7.1.

My equipment will be used 95% of the time for movies.

So, with all that said, what impact am I going to see with the 950 using a 5.1 vs. 7.1 setup on both 7.1 movies and 5.1 movies.

I have pretty much decided to go with Outlaw gear from all the excellent reviews I have read, but keep going back and forth on the AMP selection.

Also, should I do a 7100 vs. a 755/770... I posted a thread on 11seMk3 on the 7100 thread and have been given advice that the 7100 will do a good job, but what will the extra 100W give me during the action scenes.

If I go with a 770, I might need to purchase a used one because I am limited on what I can spend. I prefer new, but you know how it is.

NOTE: Warranty: I just want to let people know that one of the reasons that I have also decided to go with Outlaw is because the Warranty is transferable, hence the thought of a used 770 above. That shows me that the company TRUELY stands behind their products and it is a shame that other companies don't do the same thing.

Any input from the experienced would be extremelly helpful. I really want to make a decision here soon and get going with my purchase. I am wasting so much time on the computer re-reading reviews and eveything else...

Save me... :-)

Thanks...

I don't believe any movies are in 7.1 yet so the 5.1 is a good choice...I would have preferred the 5.1 and 200W but am in a similar boat to you...I replaced everything in one fell swoop so...I got the 7100...
I bought the 950/7100/LFM-1 combo and it is great...I have only had it a month and the speakers arrived later so not many movies but it sounded very good with Blackhawk Down and Band of Brothers...plenty of action and explosions...in fact a German Rocket that went over my head sorta scared the %$^&* outta me, so I guess that means it works!
Actually, I think 100W is PLENTY and 7.1 for the future...if you pick up a 755 that's great too...the Outlaws service is great and this place is VERY helpful!
I hope this helped...the REAL techies will respond to you soon enough
Bill

silversport:

Yeah, the 950/7100/LFM-1 combo looks very interesting... I have about $2K left to spend out of my theater budget... Thankfully my wife is letting me finish spending it.. :-)

As for the 7.1, I should have said 6.1 (ES,EX) movies...

One of the reasons I am asking some of these questions is because I just listened to a B&K Reference 50 S2 pre-pro at a shop here in Columbus, OH. I asked what the unit did on 5.1 sound tracks with the 7.1 setup and he told me that it put a small delay from the surronds to the rear-surronds to give the sound track more depth. It sounded awesome and should for a price $2,400 for just the pre-pro.

I am curious if the 950 does something similar...

I asked him about Outlaw and told me he personally did not know much about them, but why should he, he can't sell it... :-)

"True" 7.1 processing is limited to Lexicon's Logic7 and Dolby's Pro Logic IIx. Dolby Digital EX, DTS ES, and Cirrus Extra Surround (the three processing modes that the 950 offers that generate surround back data) produce a mono signal sent to one or two surround back speakers. Dolby EX and DTS ES encoding is available on some movies, but the processing can be applied to any 5.1 movie. Additionally, the 950's CES processing can be used with any 5.1 mode (Dolby Digital, DTS, or Pro Logic II), so you can use the surround back speakers any time you are using a surround mode. Personally, I've enjoyed having the surround back speakers, and in a room arranged so that 7.1 can be made to work I think it's a worthwhile step to take. Of course, it means adding two more speakers (and in some cases stands or mounting brackets) to your shopping list as well.

With your existing Paradigms, the extra 100W of power would probably rarely or never come into play, even during those action scenes. Since the other channels will have even less need for the extra power headroom, you could consider getting the 7100 now and later, if you want more power for the Monitor11's, you could add a pair of M200's for them - that's what is driving my Paradigm Studio/60's (which are about 3dB less efficient than your Monitors) now, and it's a great combination.

gonk,

Is there a rule of any sort that says you center and front speakers should be at the same WATTAGE?

Or, is it truely dependent on your speakers?

Wondering from a sound perspective... Would want your front L/R speakers to overpower the others...

Would want your front L/R speakers to overpower the others...

Should have been

Wouldn't want your front L/R speakers to overpower the others...

I don't think they need to be of the same power but I do think they should be of the same "family." I am using Klipsch Heresy mains and since they have no "matched" center (except of course, another Heresy) I use a Klipsch Academy center...close as I can get but I don't (right now anyway) listen to music multichannely (sp?
so I enjoy 2 channel through...2 speakers.
there you go.
Bill

The wattage rating of a speaker is just an indicator of the sustained power (wattage) that can be applied to the speaker without sustaining physical damage. High wattage handling does not mean louder or better sounding. The "loudness" of each speaker will be set using the trim settings in the processor to make them all equal.

Ideally the front and center speakers should provide a similar sound. This is most easily done by using speakers from the same manufacturer and if possible the same line. You shouldn't have to worry about the mains overpowering the center because you will calibrate all of the channels using a test tone and SPL meter.

The Klipsch Heresy's that silversport uses and the NHT T5's that I use will make a good example of a speaker's power rating.

First the Klipsch:
Efficiency = 97db/W
Max SPL = 114db
Max power = 100W RMS

Now the NHT:
Efficiency = 85db/W
Max SPL = 114db
Max power = 250W RMS

Looking at these two speakers shows that the Klipsch can achieve ~112db with ~64 watts. The NHT's can achieve ~112db with ~512 watts. For even greater efficiency soundhounds Altec's can achieve ~112db with ~4 watts.

Those numbers show why some need 100W amps, some need 200W and some need 8W.

I read a article on Bi-Amping on one of the 770 reviews. The reviwer loved the sound improvements that the bi-amping gave him.

Why are the sounds improved in this case since the amplified signal is the same, isn't it? It is the speaker that will cut it off...

My Paradigm 11seMk3 and Paradigm 11seMk3 are both able to bi-amping...

If I find that a higher wattage amp was ever needed, could it be augmeted by going to a 100W bi-amp configuration?

Also, Keta, how did you do the calculation to get those #'s?

I appreciate everybody giving me all this information... As I always say, information is a good thing...

11seMk3 and CC-300 speakers...

An increase of 3db requires a doubling of power.

Klipsch
97db = 1W
100db = 2W
103db = 4W
106db = 8W
109db = 16W
112db = 32W
115db = 64W

NHT
85db = 1W
88db = 2W
91db = 4W
94db = 8W
97db = 16W
100W = 32W
103db = 64W
106db = 128W
109db = 256W
112db = 512W
115db = 1024W

I'm sorry in the previous post I listed the Klipsch incorrectly as needing 64W at 112db, it should have been 32W.

Dolby EX and other 6.1 systems add a lot to the envelopment of the surrounds, even when decoding movies that were originally mixed in straight 5.1. I would go this route if you can swing it.

Bi-amping (passive) is essentially useless as it does not do anything electrically that simply using larger gauge speaker wires would do. If your amplifier has adequate damping factor (the Outlaw amps do) and your speaker wire is large enough (12 gauge or larger), then there is absolutely no benefit for passive bi-amping. Any improvements that I have heard people talk about have mysteriously vanished when they had to listen to the system with a blind comparison between passive bi-amping and with a regular single amp hookup.

Keta,

I new 3dB doubled power and see how you calculated it now.

My speakers have a sensitivity of 92db/89dB (room/anechoic).

What is the difference of room and anechoic?

When comparing speakers and AMP's, what is the DB level that, say a movie theater, would listen at?

Anechoic means without echo. Your room will have echo which reflects and boosts the sound which is why they list the "room SPL" at 92dB. I believe reference level for watching movies is 85dB for normal dialog. If you watch a movie at those levels it will be VERY loud, probably louder than you would ever listen to a movie. IMHO

85 dB for dialog would not be that loud IF it was ALL dialog!i like it loud but i can't imagine maintaining 85 dB at the center,jeez what's happenning during that car wreck,110-115 dB?

hey thanks KETA i never new anechoic meant 'without echo'

ahhhh,the 'echoless chamber' how do i make my basement into one?(actually i just want to keep the house from vibrating itself to an early death from my late night PANTERA(and BUD LIGHT) sessions)

There are many ways to achieve high sound pressure level. The equipment’s output level, speaker’s efficiency, speaker’s quantity, and the space of your room, all have impact on measured volume loudness. I can simply install multiple center channels each equipped with a 99db 1W-1meter high efficiency woofer, with 10db gain boost into each channel and measure it in my small bedroom; it will definitely louder than 85db. However, if I move this set-up into another larger bedroom and measure it again, the sound pressure level changes considerably.

Also, there are very few standard practices in studio mixing. People tend to move levels and headroom around to suit the tastes of the particular producer and these preferences often flow through the final product. This is particularly noticeable if you load a rock-n-roll CD and follow it with a classical CD in you’re the CD player. You will find yourself reaching for the gain control, as the differences in digital operating level often exceed 20 dB. Same thing apply to DVD remixing.

There are many ways to achieve high sound pressure level.

yeah, lot's of power and sub's!

i'm always reaching for the gain as much as my taste has diversified.but i sure think the industry should set some kind of standard particularly with cd recordings, anyway...
i want my room concrete on 6 sides instead of the existing 3, i just wanna get rid of the buzzes from the 1960's shoddiness!now that i have my monitor sub going again with i think even more power than stock,it gets quite rude down here!

soundkiller,i am no stranger to high spl,my s-10 has hit 150+