Hello Everyone -

I just bought a 950 for my system. I also have a Pioneer SACD/DVD-A player. I used to use a Sony DB-930 receiver as a preamp to my Marantz 5 ch amp. I also used an ICBM for bass management for the SACD player.

Heres my question - Is the bass management in the 950 sufficient for the SACD player (my best friend is begging me for my ICBM), or will I still need it?

Thank you for your help. Any and all opinions are welcome!

Craig

The 950 has a 7.1 output, although the two rear channels have the same signal, and has 5.1 analog bypass. (Exception: in stereo seven mode, the two rear channels are different.) The ICBM provides crossover for 6.1 or 6.2, the latter being useful if one wishes to run stereo subs.

Other than the 950’s 80Hz analog bass management, the selectivity of the 950's crossover points occurs in the digital realm, while the selectivity of the crossover points in the ICBM is analog. If someone tends to be an analog purist, the lack of A/D and D/A conversion for crossover might be an advantage.

The ICBM allows for a different crossover point for the rear/center surround and side surrounds. In the 950, the same crossover point is used for side and rear surrounds.

The importance of these differences will depend on the individual setup and goals of the user. Neither the 950 nor the ICBM will give you discrete signals for the rear-most L&R channels in surround mode.

What speakers do you have? If the 950's 80Hz analog crossover will work for DVD-A and SACD playback, then you will no longer need the ICBM, but if you have speakers that need a higher crossover, you may want to hang on to the ICBM.

With DVD-A and SACD, unless your speakers are such that their ideal cut-off frequency is 80HZ, you will never be able to end up with the "best" settings. The reason is the 950's "double bass" issue.

If your speakers are perfect for the 80Hz setting, then ditch the ICBM and use the 950's 80Hz "on" setting.

If your speakers are not at their best with a 80Hz setting, then choose the 950's 80Hz setting "off" and do all of your frequency selection with the ICBM. The problem with this approach is that while the 950 will pass the below-80Hz information through to your speakers, it also sums it and sends in to your sub(s). It's one of those weird, and frustrating, design choices that will hopefully get weeded out of their next generation pre-pro.

More and more DVD-A and SACD players are offering quite extensive built-in bass management capabilities. You may want to go that route instead. But you will, again, be faced with the double bass issue with the 950.

ps. I'm using such an SACD player, and an ICBM, and a Model 950. Getting the bass calibrated properly was a very lengthy proposition because of some design faults with the SACD. Even when I came up with a work-around for the SACD's fault I was still left with the 950's. Because of the 950's double bass issue I had to trim the sub signal back a bit. While this cut down on the effect of the summed bass that the 950 was sending the subs' way, it of course also reduced the level of any "pure" .1 bass that the recording engineer had placed in that channel. As I first said, the only optimal solution is if your speakers are best served by the 950 and its 80 Hz setting. Everything else is a compromise.

Jeff Mackwood

No you don't. The double bass issue is only there if full range signal is present on the 2/5 main channels when presented to the 950. If it's prefiltered by the player's BM the full signal no longer present to the 950 therefore it can't extract bass signals to be sent to the sub. The sub now only receives what the player send from it's sub out through the 950.