Just finished up connecting my 950. I have the Def Tech 2000TL's for my fronts(has 15" subwoofer in each with choice of 2 low level rca in's - full range and LFE for the sub. Fronts are bi-amped 1 parasound 1500a for tweeters and 1 for midranges.Def Tech center with parasound 750a bridged,Def tech surrounds with another 1500a.Def Tech supercube 1.The supercube gets it signal fom the LFE output from the 950.Question..which would be the better...Making my fronts small and setting xover at 40 and connecting the rca to the LFE input of the Def Tech's (which I think would by pass the crossover in the Def tech's right?)to send the 40 straight to the sub. Or... Make front speakers large and connect rca to full range in and use the Def Tech's internal xover and make them true subs........Remember,I have the supercube 1 also...Boils down to, would my system sound better using my front stereo subs to run tighter and quicker by running the down to 40hz only or just making my entire system have 3 true subwoofers any input would be great thanks, Jeff

i would feed the supercube with the lfe output from the 950, the front towers from the front right and left outpus (need to split before going to amps I presume). this setup would have the fronts set to large (i.e. full range for their respective channel) and all lfe going to the sub.

First, I'll offer a couple of related threads: DEF TECH BP2000 and deftech powertowers . In all likelihood, the best bet is to let the subs in the 2000's act as stereo subs handling the low frequency for the mains while the Supercube covers the LFE and low frequency data crossed over from center and surrounds.

so we are in agreement!

Yep, that we are. As I recall, it's been known to happen.

gonk,I read in the 2 links you gave me(thanks!)that the xover in my tech 2000's are set at 80hz.Is this true,not very low. I read the manual...it doesnt say. Also, I think I'll try both ways as far as either using the 15" woofers as stereo subs or setting front speakers to small and setting the 950's xover at 40 for the fronts.Getting back to my question.... if I hook up to my 2000's via low level LFE "in" does that by-pass the xover that is in the tower? In turn,which would make the front speakers have the 40 hz xover per the 950?

Also, as I watched a movie tonight for the first time after hooking up the new 950 I heard very low muffled chirping sounds coming from my brand new supercube 1 (not all the time though,about 3 times during the whole 3 hour movie,lasting about 5 seconds each time,that I heard during quiet passages in the movie) could be doing it more and cant hear it.Has anybody heard of this happening? Suggestions on what it could be? Thanks.

Also,also,When I was cal. the speaker volumes,I couldnt get my center down to match my other speakers. I have gain controls on all my parasound amps can I adjust this control on my center amp(which has been bridged)? Never did quite understand how you use a gain control the parasound manual says I should leave it all the way up to have THX standards If so what is the procedure. Do I leave it at the default setting in the menu of the 950 and go straight to adjusting the gain on my center amp?

You'll enjoy better signal-to-noise ratio if you send the amp a relatively hot signal (as long as you don't clip anything) and turn the amp gain down to suit your needs. The gain control on the amp is basically an attenuator; it has no effect on the maximum power capabilities of the amp. It's best to optimize the levels of the rest of your system (unity gain) and then turn the amp gains (volume) up only as far as you need to. Turn the gain all the way up on the amp can be nasty. (Hum, buzz, and hiss..etc)

Tighter and quicker has nothing to do with stereo sub set up or not. It all depends on your driver's characteristics. The TS parameter usually will tell you the best. A driver with very high BL value will usually have a good control over the cone. But, I am afraid you will never know that since you purchased a ready-made speaker. Ask the manufacture, they might tell you.

Well, I wouldn't use BL to tell control as it's really more indicative of the motor strength. Just using the printed value won't tell you anything about what happens when the sub starts moving. It's the BL vs x curve that you want. Some fall off incredibly fast while only moving a couple mm. Some will have a wider curve keeping control with much greater excursion. Subs with XBL^2 technology for example. They're BL is about half that of a Digital Designs sub, but the Xmax is several times greater. This means the sound will be much more consistant with increasing excursion, be it from lower frequency and/or more excursion.

The tightness also has a good deal to do with the installation quality. This also goes with the setup in the room. Just saying that stereo or mono is better is not really the best way to do it. The subs in question are already built, so everything has to do with the placement and setup in the room. Take some time and try them out in the different configurations. Spend the whole afternoon if you want. There's no rush and you really can't get a good feel for it with 10 seconds of listening.

so we have come up with some things that you guys think make a sub good? at last....

Only look at the xmax and maximum excursion value is useless. xmax is the length of a driver can move inward and outward and still be under controlled by the driver’s motor. Maximum excursion is the “extreme” distance a driver can move, but no longer under controlled by its motor. If you push the cone to the maximum excursion length, I bet you will recone your driver very soon……

More xmax only gives you more sound output and you need to use very powerful amps (over 1000 W I think) along with very big liter boxes (to move air) to push the driver in order to have very high sound pressure level. I can archive the same thing by simply choosing a high sensitivity drivers with less xmax value and drive it with smaller amps and still save some cash.

Fs, Qts and Vas are the three most important values you need to know when choosing the drivers. A driver with a very high BL value usually gives good speed, accuracy and fidelity; it is also ideal for horn box. This kind of driver tends to have low Qts value, which relates to speed and accuracy. Small driver usually will have low Qts value.

What kind of driver do you have anyway???? I am interested to know.

If TS value won't tell you; then, what will?

I said look at the curve, not just the two printed values. That will give you a better indication of what the sub does as it moves. Xmax (and other X values) are important to a degree. A couple mm of Xmax really doesn't allow for much volume before distortion sets in. Especially down low where the sub has to move in distances that are multiples of the higher frequencies. I forget exactly what the ratio is. Is it 4x the displacement is needed at 1/2 the octave or down 10 hz (or option 3 I'm forgetting, it's been awhile)? For a given driver we can just simplify it to position instead of displacement because the sub's cone area should be constant. I do agree that there comes a point where more Xmax really doesn't give you anything useful because you're not fully utilizing what you have already. Transient response (quickness) depends on the inductance of the driver.

I believe that Fs, Qts, and Vas are much more important insofar as choosing the box for a specific driver. This will help you reach the potential of the sub in the direction. It is possible to alter the quickness of the sub, its lowend extension, accuracy, and sensitivity to a degree with the box, but only up to the sub's potential. Not all subs have the same potential. Those specs do not say how accurate the sub is once it starts moving. They also don't give an indication of the transient response. They are mostly for building the box. They do give an indication of the extension of the sub, though.

I added one word to my original post and it seems to change the tone of the entire message.

i dont know how subwoofer specs relate to this topic's question?

then again those specs dont really equate to subwoofer performance either...

I decided to use my front tower subs as true stereo subs by taking my low level rca full range signal and feeding it to both of my towers full range inputs. I set my 950 to large for the front speakers.Question.......In my menu it still shows the xover choices for the front speakers,40-150hz. My other processor would omit that part of the menu when I would choose large for any of my speakers.Is there something that I need to do to confirm with the 950 on the menu? Or will it always show hz adjustments for each speaker no matter what size I choose. Just want to make sure that my front speakers are getting the full range signal to them,with that hz choice still showing kinda scares me if I am doing it right.Anybody know? Thanks

:p

I doubt if you really know how to read TS parameter and built speakers before. I think probably not.........

Never mind.

While we encourage the discussion of the value of certain specifications, we must remind everyone to continue to abide by the rules of the Saloon. We reserve the right to bar Saloon access to anyone who posts messages that are in violation of these rules. There has been an increase in negative postings and discussion around here in recent weeks and it will not be allowed to continue.

I have the same speakers wired the way you have decided to go, stereo subs, set as "large" but with no separate sub, using the low level RCA inputs....and have always wondered the same thing about the front crossover point.......anyone have any clues or know the answer?????

This question hasn't come up in a while, possibly because so many people run all channels set to small, but it is an issue that can and does throw people off from time to time. The 950 menu appears to allow you to set crossover points for speakers whether they are set to small or large, even though a speaker that is set to large should not have any crossover applied. What the 950 is really doing is exactly what you would want it to do - when a speaker is set to large, the 950 disregards the crossover point setting and passes the signal through without altering it. You could set the crossover point for a "large" speaker to whatever you want, and it will not affect the way the 950 treats the signal for that speaker.

Whew!
Cool!!!
Nice to know for sure how things work.......the combination of my Def Techs, Outlaw 950/755 and my trusty old Fosgate 4100 amp :rolleyes: for rear channels makes my home theater really sound awesome.....my Def Techs love the 755 amp...such a great match-up!! I marvel at the sound every time I use it....for movies or music... it really shines!!
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