My sentiments exactly.

It's nice to make new friends. You might want to re-read the sentence in my original post that describes the 950 as an excellent buy for video and pop music reproduction. That hardly is "trashing." I'll add here that the 950 is as good as any unit on the market for what it is designed to do, Lexicon included. It just isn't designed to make an acoustical recording sound right in a surround-sound environment, and that is critical for me. The majority of users who listen to nothing but multi-miked, super-mixed pop music probably don't give a hoot. Yes, folks, I read the manual first but thought I'd give it a whirl just the same. I was eager for those component inputs and the SACD capability at a steal of a price. Can't audition an Outlaw in a store or take one home for an audition except by buying it. Who knew that the absent features might be less important sonically than I thought? Unfortunately, frequency contouring and delay DO matter, and there IS an audible effect to not being able to set distance parameters separately for surround and rear channels. I am waiting for the day Outlaw comes out with an upscale processor that does everything the Lexicon does at 1/5 the price. There is no reason they can't do it and no reason not to buy it.

In my humble and semi-informed opinion, if somebody wants a "preamp" with absolute and unaltered reproduction of music or any source with no degredation whatsoever, there is one simple option:

A PASSIVE "PREAMP" WHICH CONTAINS ONLY A VOLUME CONTROL WITH NO ACTIVE CIRCUITRY.

leave the guy alone already, everyone is entitled to their opinion. he to his and you to yours...

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Good grief. As he says, you can't audition an Outlaw in a store or take one home for an audition except by buying it. He didn't realize that the absent features might be more important sonically than thought. And he followed the advice of many many who suggest that people who are sitting on the fence just try the unit and see if they like it. He read the manual before he got it home. I'm sure he's not the only one to take a chance, audition it with some reservations, then decide it's not for them. A home test is no free lunch. Sure he'll get his money back, minus shipping. But he probably spent a good deal of time researching it, connecting it to his system and listening to it.

Yes, folks, I read the manual first but thought I'd give it a whirl just the same. I was eager for those component inputs and the SACD capability at a steal of a price.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited June 12, 2004).]

Sheesh you guys are tough. He's not trashing it. He just tried it out and prefered something else. He still said it was good, just not good enough for him. The 950 is not for everyone.

Not being tough, just trying to get the main points here.

It appears that you're talking about a matrixed affair, a la Logic 7, otherwise, the delay setting of the surround back speakers is moot and controlling 'steering' isn't possible within Dolby processing.

I'm primarily interested in MC music of all types. This means that I don't need any delay settings. I modified the room to reflect my interest, and would never introduce 2 extra matrixed channels to add ambience, or anything else for that matter.

SACD and DVD-A are 5.1 formats played through the 6 CH BYPASS mode of the 950.

Manipulation of the surrounds in these formats is better achieved in the player, otherwise, conversion from analog to digital and back to analog would be required or, an outboard analog processor.

Acoustic music performed in a live environment I understand, but...within Dolby processing...loses me.

What serious listener of ANY genre of music would purchase it in DD?

'pop music' is never 'multi-miked' and acoustic MC music in a hall environment is usually 'super mixed', or, I don't know what these terms mean.

In fact, the 6 channel analog bypass mode of the 950, with it's extremely accurate 80 Hz bass management engaged, used with a good player, the right 5 satellite and subwoofer system, properly placed to eliminate the need for delay settings and separate amps with gain control offers EXCELLENT calibration tweaks and reproduction of SACD formatted, multi channel acoustic music performed in a hall environment.

I guarantee that it will sound better than any Dobly formatted disc, regardless of the preamp/processor used, or how the surrounds are electronically manipulated to the room and frequency contoured.

I've never met anyone who can hear a 1/2 dB change in the surround speakers, and, how would you measure that difference at the LP?

I'm able to engage routing schemes with my player and the 950 that are only otherwise available in the MC-12 model from Lex. Even then, the Lex would require the extra step of A/D/DSP/A conversions/manipulations. Would the Lex do it more accurately, sonically speaking? I don't know. I'd have to pay 10 times the price of the 950 and spend several weeks with the Lex to find out...something I'm not willing to do.

Ordering, buying, not liking (for whatever reason...some have not liked it because they thought it's 'ugly') and sending it back is perfectly reasonable. In fact, it's how the Outlaw model is designed to work.

I just got a bit confused trying to understand the reasons for not liking it.

Yes...this is a tough room. It's the kind of tough that doesn't tolerate generalizations well and this makes it a great place to learn all things MC audio and more importantly, all things Outlaw 950.

You can do very cool things with the 950 that aren't in the manual, and you can't do some things that might be a personal requirement and therefore, a deal breaker.

Of course, Lex makes GREAT products.

Well, this got a bit ugly. Let's review briefly.



TANSTAAFL is a very, very true bit of wisdom: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. The 950 is not a free lunch. Along those lines, I might describe it as a good and reasonably priced meal, however.



I'm a little unclear as to what processing you were expecting the 950 to have, and I think that's the bit that generated the most energetic responses here. Were you using Logic7 to play back stereo recordings in surround? Logic7 has earned itself a devoted following for such applications, but it is part of the reason that Lexicon's pricetags are so different from the 950.



The lack of individual speaker distance control was a source of much angst during the 950's original release, but as several people here noted it is clearly spelled out in the manual. I've never had a problem with the 1dB level adjustment limitation, nor have I heard any fuss about it.



Even among units being released today, OSD through component is rare. The bandwidth involved in component switching means that it takes some significant processing horsepower to generate an OSD: even on gear costing several times what the 950 goes for, component inputs do not have onscreen data overlayed, and only in the last year or less have manufacturers begun allowing for onscreen setup menus (which completely replace any input signal) via component output.



Surround Sound Processor technology is moving fast these days. I suspect that the next Outlaw SSP will be a great combination of features and sonic performance (and the 1070 that's due around the first of the year should offer a good preview), likely incorporating a great many of the features you have become accustomed to with the Lex. But one of the reasons that many people have complained at length about the 950 over the last couple years was an unstated desire for a free lunch (a pre/pro with every feature they would ever want to use, plus great sound, at a price several times cheaper than their "dream" pre/pros sell for) and the assumption that the 950 would be that free lunch. At $800-$1000, you will never get the full feature set and performance of a $6000+ pre/pro. Giving another nod to Heinlein, TANSTAAFL still holds true.

I'm sorry to hear that the 950 didn't fit the bill for you. Hopefully you'll find something that suits your needs -- the Lexicon MC-8 might interest you.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Many years ago(before Pro-logic was affordable)I was fortunate enough to attend a dealer sponsored demo for Lexicon and the MC-1(if memory serves correctly). Very impressive processing for music. You could set the size of the hall as well as the decay rate of the reverb, if that makes sense! The rep. would hit pause and instead of immediate silence, the sound decayed into silence as if you shouted in a real hall....I was impressed! That type of DSP I have never encountered below the Lexicon's price point.

I've always looked at listening to good stereo recordings thru ANY surround processing mode as a gimic more than anything else. Heck I value DVD-A and SACD for their greater dynamic range in 2 channel than I do for surround. Soundhound is right on as to a pure unaltered signal - get a Passive preamp.
Lastly I'm sure there are Preamps above and beyond the 950s capabilities(did ya ever read thru the Absolute Sound?!) But a preamp at 950 paired with a 7100 0r better is a great buy!