I think I've narrowed it down to these two. My biggest problem though is finding out about the P-965, The have a lousy website and their dealer locater has been under repair forever. Does anyone know anything about the P-965? Is it available? How does it preform? Does it really exist? Should I just buy he 950 and be done with it. Help my head is starting to hurt.

You're in the wrong forum first of all. Go to the AVS forum. Not only will you find out everything you need to know about it, Sherwood's VP of marketing posts there almost everyday. Here is a specific link you can check out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160581

The posts go from March to recent.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Majestyk (edited May 24, 2004).]

we have talked about those two models here before, so perhaps he is not in the wrong forum. avs has a lot of information, perhaps too much from too many people. this forum is lucky enough to have mostly intelligent people.

I'm actually in 4 forums looking for info. Majestyk is correct in that the AVS forum does have an enormus thread concerning the P965 it does take some time to go through it to find relevant information but it has been helpful. I've really grown to like the outlaw forum mainly because of what curegeorg points out that most of the people here are very knowledgable. I just still can't shake this feeling that if I buy the 950 that Outlaw is going to come out with an updated preamp by the end of the year. I'm really leaning to just enjoying what I have know and waiting until after the summer to upgrade.
Thanks to all that helped in my decision making.

They should have the receiver ready by then end of the year, but I'd guess a new pre-amp wouldn't be out for another.

"when the ball drops in time square" is what Peter/Outlaw Audio said at the show in NY regarding availability for the new receiver.
I'm torn between the 950 and the 965. Both are great values. Sure the 965 has more bells, but it's also almost twice the price. I was lucky enough to see and hear both this last weekend. Very difficult to choose between them. $$ is a very big factor for me.

List out the features that actually interest you. Ignore the ones that hold little or no value. Then decide if they are worth the price difference. If something might be cool to have, but you really don't care then it holds little to no value to you. Consult back here as often as you need.

One of the reasons that I was leaning towards the P965 was the OSD display through the component outputs however I just read (I'll try to find the link)that all the new processors and recievers that upconvert all signals to component will display through component output but only at 480i, anything higher and no display, that includes volume. So if you're watching High Def or progressive scan DVD (which is 95% of my viewing) there is no OSD through component outputs.
Other than that I'm sure the Cirrus surround modes will do about the same job as DPLIIx. This leaves no real reason not to give the 950 an audition, especially when I can do the 950 and 7100 for about the price of the P965 alone. Off to the order page, I'll let you know how things work out.

How do I advance to a "gunslinger" from my present "deputy gunslinger"??

"Consult back here as often as you need"
hehe..thanks! been lurking here since this forum opened. I used to visit the original web site almost every day to see when the 1050 would be released. I like this company a lot. That makes it even more difficult!

Shawn

Your sixteenth post will make you a gunslinger. And the information about OSD through component is pretty interesting.

I think demoing the 950 is a fine idea -- it still packs a lot of value. Let us know what you think when you've got it hooked up.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Wow. I first signed on not too long after it was released.

To become a Gunslinger you need more posts. I forget how many though. Post count means nothing anyway.

Aww, c'mon guys! Why didn't you tell Shawn he had to perform many dastardly Outlaw deeds and be nominated by at least fifteen notorious Gunslingers?

You mean they've dropped the initiation ceremony? Dang!

Well, as Groucho once said: "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member".

Jeff Mackwood

i doubt this is true considering they have hd bandwidth, that would be pointless if they couldnt. my denon 3805 upconverts to component, perhaps ill try to pass progressive scan dvd or hdtv through it tomorrow. or maybe just read the manual :-). ill post again.

I haven't dug through manuals yet to check on this (the Sherwood's manual isn't available online, so I can't check it, but your Denon's manual is). The problem would lie not with the bandwidth, but with the ability to process the HD signal to add the OSD information. That's a very complex task, and one that must be done flawlessly to avoid signal degradation that would negate the value of the component switching. From what I read a couple years ago, the first pre/pros to include OSD on component were forced to completely disable the source image and replace it with a blank blue screen in order to display any OSD data at all (this was obviously intended for on-screen configuration, not convenience volume display during movie viewing).

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Somewhere on the AVS threads Jeff provided a link to the manual as well as the brochure. I have both.

To save time for any interested parties here is a link to my PDF copies.

http://home.comcast.net/~gmfadams/files/brochure.zip

http://home.comcast.net/~gmfadams/files/manual.zip

"The have a lousy website and their dealer locater has been under repair forever."

I sure hope their product is better than their website. Otherwise, your Sherwood preamp might be "under repair forever" Go with the 950 and prepare to be impressed.

Who cares about the web site. Jeff Hipps, VP of Sherwood Marketing, posts on both The Home Theater & AVS Forum's just about everyday. I've been emailing him all week about a Sherwood amp of mine (no it's not broken). He's emailed me back every single day, including Sunday! If you have any questions, just post a question or you can email him. He posts under Stereojeff at AVS and under his own name on HTF.


Jeff



[This message has been edited by Majestyk (edited May 26, 2004).]

a good website is always nice.

Outlaw's philosophy seems to be to not have their senior sales people participate on the public forums, and to have this web site which includes the Saloon. Sherwood Newcastle on the other hand seems to be of the opinion that having one of their own senior sales/marketing people working the audio forums, is a good thing. Maybe in time Sherwood's web site may improve. And maybe in time a sales/marketing person from Outlaw may work the public forums. This internet sales industry is evolving and the Outlaws are always at the forefront!

Will

I've done some digging through two manuals (the P-965 manual that Garrett kindly provided and the Denon 3805), just to satisfy my curiousity. In both cases, the only OSD that is available via component video is the setup menu - OSD overlays are not available. There is an exception (and it appears to apply to both units): s-video and composite video inputs viewed from the component monitor output will retain the overlay. This makes sense, as the overlay is added to the signals before they are converted to component. This also fits Shawnb16's findings, as I would expect the upconversion to component to be at 480i.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I'd worry more if they were overlaying OSD data on a component video input.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

So for the other 260 million customers out there that may look to the PRODUCTS website vs. some forum, they're just SOL. Marketing studies show that customers will almost always do some sort of research via the manufacturers website before making a purchase. Every other reputable manufacturer I can think of has a fully functioning website.......I consider this to be a minimum standard. Outlaw's site always works just fine....just like their products.

harp, I agree. I'm sure some folks would be turned off by that. Back in 99 when I was looking for an amp., Anthem had the same problem. I called customer service and they gave me the name of a few dealers. Not many back then.

gonk, you are correct. that is what my unit does. i could have said that yesterday, but i thought the guy was saying it wouldnt show hd or progressive scan from component at all, silly me. their is no osd overlay when watching high quality signals, only when watching lower ones converted up. osd is pretty useless except for at setup, so i think its a good idea to take it off instead of degrade the signal.

One advantage the 950 has over the Sherwood is the 950 has separate crossovers for the center, front and surround speakers. The Sherwood has a global crossover, as I understand it. But...

DPL IIx is superior to Cirrus surround. Cirrus surround adds one just mono channel of sound in the rear not a stereo pair. Also as I understand it, the side surround in Cirrus surround are not modified when the rear surrounds are added. But with DPL IIx, the sides are modified to take account of the rear surrounds.

hey gonk, you're the man with that chart! good work, I'm facing west and saluting.