Hello again,

Perhaps I can provide a tad more detail to what all I have tried to remedy this. I have switched from any number of the surround outputs to 6ch direct. The center does happily play when in the surround mode, and it is cut off when the switch is made. We therefore know that the interconnect between the 950 and the 7100 is functional. Also, that rules out a different downstream wiring issue.

From what I mentioned in my previous post, the center channel will play test tones generated by the 2200 when the 950 is in 6ch direct. I have everything laid out on the floor now and the only inputs that I have running between the 2200 and the 950 are connected to the 950’s multi channel inputs.

Gonk, you are correct about the options in the Denon’s audio setup menu. There are actually two different items under that audio setup menu that could be causing the problems. There is a “audio channel” setting that can either be set to “multichannel” or “2 channel.” The next item is “Super Audio CD” which can be set to either “multichannel,” “stereo,” or “CD.” Strangely, SACDs labeled as SACD only (not readable by normal cd players) will play when the “CD” option is selected in this menu. However the display on the 2200 still calls it a SACD. I can compound this more by saying that SACDs that have a normal cd layer on them will play and show up on the 2200’s display as CD’s when that option is selected.

Back on track, the menus are all set to mutli on the 2200. The Denon remembers the settings between discs and being powered off, so that isn’t the problem. Additionally, you have to be in multichannel mode to have access to the speaker configuration menu in the Denon that allows you to test other surround channels. The menu will only let you test the mains if you are set to stereo. This is where I am able to play the test tones that work.

I have a feeling that it is a quirk with the Denon because I can’t see how the 950 would manage to alter music input but not test tone input. Sorry for the long read, but I would still really appreciate any ideas.

Regards,
Matt


UPDATE: I think I have solved my problem, hopefully it can help some others. I disc I was using to test everything was Aerosmith's Ultimate hits 2 SACD set. The fancy sleeve it was in said it was multichannel. I have a few others that have stereo sleeves and didn't think anything of it. So just to try something new I drop some Toto IV in the denon. Boom, the center channel plays perfectly. Upon closer inspection of the Aerosmith disc, it is not multi channel as the sleeve said. Now I'm gonna have to yell at Bestbuy and Sony, and from previous experience I know that talking to each is like talking to a wall.


[This message has been edited by mthen10 (edited March 30, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by mthen10 (edited March 30, 2004).]

After I posted earlier today, I dug a bit deeper into the 2200's manual. Setting SACD to "CD" will cause it to attempt to play a CD layer, but if there is no CD layer available it will automatically switch to the SACD layer. That explains mthen10's experience with SACD's that lack a CD layer The manual isn't clear on how it will then decide between stereo and multichannel if both are available.

There's not a lot that can be done as far as publishers providing insufficient or inaccurate labeling of their products. One thing that can be done is to lean on the player to shed some light on what is really coming from the disc. In the case of the 2200, there is a set of indicators on the top right corner of the display that show what channels are actively being output. That should help identify discs that are 5.1, 5.0, 2.0, or something in between such as 4.0 (assuming it works with DVD-Audio and SACD discs, which I would certainly hope it would).

mthen10 offers a good suggestion: the 2200's test tones. If you can get test tones from the 2200 on all six channels, then you know that the 950 is functioning correctly and all of the interconnects in the signal path are correct.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

On my Denon 1600 I always ht the "display" button on the DVD remote to check it's output because sometimes it will default to stereo instead of multi channel. The display comes up 96K 24b 6ch for the multi channel and 192K 24b 2ch for the stereo. Of course the frequency and bits will represent what the recoding is.

So I checked the settings on the Denon 2200.

Audio Channel: Multichannel
SACD: Multi
Digital Out: Normal
LPCM: Off
Bass Enhancer: Off

Further, under Multichannel all speakers are set to large and sub to Yes.

SACD - I check and it was one - nada. Switched there from various other digital modes.

Test Tones - None, not a peep... in any channel

Now, I did just play a DVD and it register as being 5.1 on the display and sounded that way as well.

I checked all the cables. They are all hooked up right. So there is either a problem with the Dennon outputting the signals or the Outlaw reading the signals. There is no problem with a stereo signal or seemingly the digital signal. Any ideas on how I can isolate which?

BTW does anyone from Outlaw monitor these posts or do I have to go over this with them in full again?

Tim

I've been following along with the discovery process. Feel free to call me at tomorrow at 866-OUTLAWS.

Best,

Scott

I'm new to SACD and the 950, and wish I had read this thread a bit earlier, but it's been a big help. I'm curious about the issue of nothing coming from the center channel on '"surround" SACD mixes. Is it possible that many (or all?) of these are mixed without a center channel signal? After all, it's designed for dialogue in film soundtracks, and perhaps the idea is that correct imaging between L & R front creates the center for music?? Just a theory. Does anyone have a setup where they do hear something from these SACD mixes from the center?

Pick up the Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD. If you not hearing your center channel, or your sub for that matter, then something is up with your playback system. Also, it is very much a reference SACD worth picking up.

As for other SACDs, it will be different from disc to disc on wether there is a center channel or not. It is completely the engineer's/producer's choice of wether or not to include it.

For more info on your discs, try these sites:
www.sacdinfo.com
www.highfidelityreview.com

I response to nealk's concerns, the only reason that my center channel wasn't working was because the disc I was using was improperly labeled as a multi-channel disc. All other multi-channel SACDs play as expected. I was only able to use the center channel as a determining factor because I have no rears or sub presently. The Billy Joel Stranger CD has his voice emanating almost exclusively from the center channel. I hope this alleviated some of your concerns. I just wish I had realized that the disc was incorrectly labeled before I tore everything apart and bothered everyone here. Sorry to have caused any unfounded concerns.

Regards,
Matt