I'd like a way to turn off the center channel speaker with the simple push of a button, yet still be able to have the rear surrounds working.

Maybe it's just me, but listening to music with the center channel on ruins the stereo separation experience for me.

Am I incorrect in assuming that the center channel, being mono, would take away from the separation?


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I guess when I am in 2 channel mode I simply prefer right and left speaker only ( plus sub, if connected ). I see 6 channel stereo or 2 + channel stereo as background music listening type things. I'm not sure going back to a "quad" setup ( right left plus rear surrounds or rears plus surrounds ) will do much to localize the sound stage for normal 2 channel stereo recordings. I am not yet big into dvd audio or SA CD's though plan to delve into such soon, but I think what some of the effect they promote is a different soundstage. I can't remmeber how to spell his name but the engineer famous for much of GAS ( Great American Sound ) SAE and Sumo equipment ( James xxxxxxx ) has been quoted as saying sound in nature is MONO, and goes on at length to describe the effects stereo recordings has had on musicality ( I used to own some Sumo equipment and can say it sounded very musical!). So, not sure there would be a huge demand ot remove the center channel. The sound would still be processed by the 950, and if it were 2 channel recordings to begin with I don't see how ANY processing would benefit the soundstage of the recording.

My wish list for 2 channel sound would be the ability to set my mians to SMALL and in 2 channel bypass mode have the bass management feature remain active such that my mains would receive only the bass above my crossover point and that my subwoofer would take the remaining bass. The " double bass" issue doesn't bother me that much in terms of the obvious but it would be nice to remove the low frequency demands from the mains and allow the sub to do it's job of making bass!

Equipment:

950
755
Pioneer Elite 45A DVD
Sony CDP-X77ES CD player ( 35 pound brute!)
KEF 104.2 Mains
KEF 200C center channel
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Soon to be LFM-1 Sub

Innovator,

Maybe I'm missing something with your post, but I don't follow whatever it is that you are trying to say.

You want to listen to "stereo" music, without a centre channel, but with surrounds on? To my mind "stereo" is a left and a right front speaker - nothing else.

In that case an answer to your question is: it depends. It depends on your room layout, speaker separation, source material, etc. I've found that with speakers set pretty far apart, having a centre mono speaker "fills a gap" in the sound - rather than reducing stereo separation.

But it's your system - and your listening experience. So do whatever sounds best to you. Nothing that you do will be "wrong" - so long as you enjoy it. (To paraphrase the greatest Canadian Prime Minister ever: "What goes on in the home theatres of the Nation is nobody else's business.")

As for the "one button" solution: having a separate centre channel amp with power button within reach would work.

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood
Ottawa

Stereo is one step up from a victrola, and not the reason to buy a multichannel pre/pro.

Stereo in matrix form is just insane.

BUT...if ever there was an argument for monoblock amps, this is it.

jdavis37, the engineer you're thinking of is James Bongiorno. He's currently working on making amplifiers (the Ampzilla 2000, supposed to be great) and a processor that he calls Trinaural. It's an all analog processor that converts stereo signals to 3-channel, all w/o digital processing.

He still maintains that sound in nature is mono, and that's some of the thinking behind his processor. Haven't heard it myself, but others whose opinion I respect have heard it and say it's great. His processor must be doing something right, because it won the "Best of High End Audio" award at last year's CES show.

http://www.ampzilla2000.com/Web_Processor.html

jgubman, yes that's the guy! I've read several of his interviews and have listened to several of his amps and preamps along the way. I owned a Sumo Athena and Polaris amp and for years thought he had designed them, but later discovered he had not. Yet, I have to admit they sounded very well incredible. SO guess his reach had extended inot the design efforts of the entire company! The Andromeda amp he designed for Sumo was nothing shor tof spectacular and I still remeber the days of his original Ampzilla though before you assume I am too old I was only a teen during that time! His new Ampzilla 2000 is a very pricey monoblock though I can guess it probably sounds incredible. I know many engineers have trouble explaining why some gear sounds better than others since one is only pushing electrons through wires, and I will not even touch the debate of whether expensive interconnects and speaker cable make a difference verus lamp cords, but my ears have heard some of his designs ( amp and preamp ) and there is a difference. I just received my 950/755 combo and thus far am quite pleased with it. It is doing exactly what i had hoped for.. a single systen for both home theater and home audio. Do I think it sounds as pleasing to my ears as did my Sumo? No, not really, to be honest. But then I did not totally expect it to, either. I wanted a single system does it all and had a budget. The 950 soundstage is very wide, wider than my Athena preamp was, and it's clean. Home theater wise it definitely is getting my attention, and maybe my neighbors from time to time! It's good stuff and I certainly do not have the time to listen critically to music like I did when younger. I'd love ot hear the new James B equipment, if for no other reason than to enjoy where he has gone with things. But, at home, I'm now a happy Outlaw!

Yep, I hear you. I suffer from a budget also, otherwise, I'd probably try out 3 of the Ampzilla 2000s. I hear he's releasing a Son of Ampzilla stereo amplifier this year at CES, it should probably be both cheaper and less powerful that the monoblock ampzilla.

Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with some great amps and preamps, glad to hear you're enjoying the 950. From time to time, I think about picking up one of James' old Thaedra preamps and having a dedicated 2-channel system.

Budget and practicality has stopped me so far...

[This message has been edited by jgubman (edited December 14, 2003).]

Can't you just set center to none?

Overall, the sound quality is superb, and I most definitely feel I got more than my monies worth, but there are a few things that could have been a little better thought out in versatile functionality.

I want the side and rear to produce the same sounds as the front, without the use of the center channel. I do want the subwoofer on, but in 5 and more so in 7 channel stereo mode, the subwoofer becomes overbearing, requiring a 4 db reduction to sound balanced. My room is 40X30/

I have an Outlaw M block for the center channel right now, but no button to turn it off with, even in the front of it. That would have be a good idea.

My side surrounds become too loud in the 7 channel mode, so I usually use the 5 channel mode for music. The NEO modes are next to useless for my tastes. Does anybody actually use them on a regular basis? I think not having identical amps is causing me a bit of a problem. Their volume levels don't rise proportionately, causing improper surround levels a various decibel levels.


My old Pioneer D1S surround reciever had the center on or off feature, as well as narrow, wide and phantom available from the remote and main unit. Still, most of these are minor in the scheme of things when you consider all the pluses with the 950.

I wonder if a different chip could be designed to add features in the future. I’d be more than willing to pay for such an upgrade ;-)




[This message has been edited by Innovator (edited December 14, 2003).]

Innovator,
If I'm interpreting your post correctly, you cannot disable the center channel when using stereo 5 or stereo 7 modes. See the following thread for more info:
http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/001081.html
Unfortunately, even if you had a monoblock amp with a power switch that still wouldn't do the trick for you because the front left and right channels wouldn't sound correct (the common signal intended for the center channel has been removed in processing). The center channel has to be disabled in the processing not at the speaker or amplifier.
Isn't it ironic that I can't get stereo 5 or 7 to operate because I don't have a center channel and you don't like stereo 5 because you can't disable the center channel in this mode! I wonder if anyone at Outlaw headquarters is paying attention to this?

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Tekdredger