First off let me start by saying that not only am I new to this forum, I am also completely green to the home theater game. On that note, thanks for bearing with me, and thanks in advance for all your help! [enough with the disclaimer]

After many hours of online research and many trips to the local toy stores (aka Home Audio stores) I had gotten to the point of total confusion. Every sales person I dealt with seemed to give me information that counterdicted the last and confused me even more. By chance I came across the Outlaw website and made a call to the pre-sales staff. I spoke with Scott who not only took the time to clarify some key elements for me, he actually went so far as to recommend some "brand x" receivers that might have been a cheaper route for me. Needless to say after our conversation, I was almost immedeately sold on the Outlaw 950/7100 combo.

I plan to purchase the 950/7100 combo in the very near future along with a great 7 channel speaker setup to truly bring out the home theater experience. Therein lies the problem... I really have no idea as to what speakers would be ideal for my purposes. I don't even know where to start. That's where I'm hoping all you fine folks can help me out. Below I've listed sort of an idea of what I hope to achieve with the speakers as well as a layout of the room:

Speaker layout (roughly $1800 budget) - Center: stand alone unit (to be placed below the TV), Front L&R: preferably in-walls (possibly bookshelf or satellite styles if asthetically pleasing and not too overbearing), Rear L&R surrounds: definately in-ceiling, Rear Center L&R: also definately in-ceiling, Sub: dunno?

Room layout - 18'6"x16'4"x9' greatroom design (Front TV wall butts up to the bedroom and has no internal batting, Rear seating wall has two large dual pane windows, 3rd wall has one large dual pane window and dual pane sliding glass door, no 4th wall due to greatroom design)

Please let me know if there is anything that I left out that would help... and thanks again all!

PS. Considering I won't be able to recreate the 950/7100 combo in order to listen to any speakers at my local stores, I'm relying heavily on your guys opinions and recommendations. Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by Arizona Mike (edited October 24, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Arizona Mike (edited October 24, 2003).]

I have not tried these speakers personally (I already had purchased speakers, so was not an option when they came out), vut I hear the Rocket 750s and associated center and surrounds are excellent speakers, and also a great match with the Outlaw gear. Check out www.av123.com. Do a search on "Rocket" speakers. Supposed to be fantastic.

Having said that, others to consider are:

Paradigm
PSB
Swan (Divas)

I think the above speakers represent great value and excellent sonic qualities. And consider

B&W (had to include it as I have these , although I admit these may not be the greatest value, but you might like the sound)

For sub woofers, check out the Hsu or SVS. These subs are fantastic. Any one of their models. I have an SVS 20-39PC+ sub.

$1800 may or may not buy all you want, so you may consider purchasing piece by piece as budget allows.

Good luck,

PS - make sure you check out the B-stocks for both the Outlaw and Rockets if you go that route. May save you some $$.

[This message has been edited by BleakShore (edited October 24, 2003).]

To be completely honest, I don't know of too many in-wall (or ceiling mount) speakers that offer a very good sound quality. I work for a small retailer in my town, and we carry polk audio and BIC mountable speakers. They are both relatively good brands, but just about any bookshelf speaker that we sell has a better overall sound than the mounted speakers. Do you have any ideas as to what sort of color/finish might work in your room if you were to get some bookshelf speakers?

There are in-walls available from Paradigm, B&W, M&K, Atlantic Tech, Boston Acoustics, and a number of others. Dane settled on B&W's, and this thread of his might be handy reading for you. Paradigm has recently added to their in-wall line (I've got a set of Paradigm Studios at home, so I can't leave them out ), and M&K and Atlantic Tech are both well-regarded speaker brands.

I would seriously recommend considering bookshelves for the mains if possible -- you'll have much greater flexibility in positioning for optimum sound. All of the brands above offer good looking bookshelves. From the description of your space, I understand why you are looking to use in-ceiling speakers for surround duty -- I think I read something somewhere on a speaker from Atlantic Tech that was designed mainly for in-ceiling installations. Also, if there is a local shop (or shops) that offer any of these lines, definitely demo them at the store at least; even though there won't be a 950/7100 driving them, it could be very informative. Also take some of your own demo material (music and/or movies) with you, so you are using material that you are familiar with.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Great ideas so far guys... thanks for all the input!

Gonk, I took a look at that other thread you mentioned and got some great ideas from there as well. Nice to know I'm not the only one in this boat.

One quick thing... what are your guys opinions on the Morel line? A buddy of mine here in town suggested thier line of in-walls/in-ceilings (SQ-21's or HQ-21's) along with thier center channel (SoundCenter C-5) and sub (SoundSub IS-9A). The in-walls boast a fully enclosed back and a rotatable design while the dual 9" sub has a low freq response of 19Hz (nothing special about the center). Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these. Thanks again!

Mike

One point that hasn't been mentioned (but may be implied) is that all the speakers you buy (save, perhaps, the sub) should be timbre-matched. That is, buy speakers that are meant to be used together, speakers that have similarly-engineered and constructed tweeters, etc. Ideally, one has 7 speakers that are exactly the same.

Although they never (or rarely) show up in tests, I have Klipsch speakers and think they are great. Klipsch has a user forum that rivals the Outlaw forum. Klipsch makes both in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, but I think the advice to go with bookshelf or bigger speakers is good advice.

If you want a completely built-in look, there is a sub (I don't know the brand) that fits in between wall or floor studs.

Arizona Mike,
I agree with gonk on choosing bookshelf speakers for their versatility. Once you have built-ins, you are stuck with it. What if you want to upgrade? You can, but it will be a lot of hassle and the choices will be rather small.

Ever considered kit speakers? For your budget, I’d say they are the closest thing to “perfect” speakers. Dollar per dollar, they can beat just about all commercial brands. I am a happy owner of kit speakers and a home made (from ground up) subwoofer. Try this thread: http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/001047.html

Also, try this http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000280.html

Looking for custom finishes? This is a great site: http://www.acoustic-visions.com/

Good luck and keep the Gunslingers posted.

You like the idea of Outlaw...why not continue the trend. Internet only companies offer great value. Buy a subwoofer from SVS and add a Behringer DSP 1124 pro to smooth out the room response. This will give you a great foundation for about $700. Then take a look at my favorite speakers...Axiom, or perhaps Ascend Acoustics, ACI, or Rocket loudspeakers. Paradigm is a great speaker found at your local shop. Good in-wall speakers are expensive, and really can't compete with floorstanding, bookshelf, or monitor speakers in their price range. Take a look at the Axiom M22ti speakers or the Ascends. You can put together a great system with a fantastic sub for $1800, but look to the internet brands. If you are really in need of in-walls, look to Triad. From what I have read over the years, they have been about the highest regarded in-walls. Great speakers, but not even remotely cheap.

[This message has been edited by willscary (edited October 24, 2003).]

I'm one of those Outlaw/Rocket owners. If $1800 is your speaker budget I don't think you could do much better then the Rocket package #3 which is on sale for $1799.

Do you have some CDs and DVDs you like? If so, pack them up and head off to your local toy stores. Listen to speakers, and yes it is okay to ask the salesperson to shut up so you can listen. Listen to speakers, not the sales hype, your ears really don't care what the sales hype is but will care how the speakers sound. There is a problem with places like Circuit City and Best Buys, it's too noisy to listen to speakers. You need to shop some place that is quiet, that won't rush you, that lets you listen to YOUR cds. Relax while listening, sip some tea or coffee. Make this an enjoyable experience. Compare speakers to drinks, you prefer some tastes to others. When you have it narrowed down to two choices, ask yourself which is "hot chocolate" and which is that mug of "hot chocolate" with the little marshmellows and the whippedcream. Taste the sound the speakers produce. If you don't you may find your ears soon get bored with the plain "hot chocolate," and you've just spent a lot of money for plain, boring hot chocolate. I agree with looking at speakers you can move around, it will be like sprinkling nutmeg on your hot chocolate when you get them home. My wife thinks I've lost my mind with this metaphor, but most of us have learned this lessen over the years. Lots of luck shopping, but DO NOT buy speakers based soley on our recommendations! This is the most subjective decision in the whole hometheater process.