I believe Will was referring to the 950 accepting digital DVD-A/SACD signals instead of the current analog signal

Yes. Nobody has announced an inexpensive pre/pro/tuner with a digital DVD-A/SACD interface, yet. Sherwood Newcastle has however announced an inexpensive model with DPL IIx. The new Sherwood should be available soon.

Still no word when Outlaw will have DPL IIx.

Best,

Will

Anyone try emailing Outlaw and asking?

When and if they want the public to know, they'll tell the public, at a time of their choosing.

I see both of your view points. But saying something like "you ware unable to comprehend" sounds, to me, a bit condescending.

Why not explain one more time to sanjay and be done with it? It couldn't take more of your time (you've already spent a bit of time and effort by saying "you wouldn't get it" repeatedly?)

If you do that, as sanjay said, he will decide if either he gets it or not. I don't see how you can be so certain he would not get it. Are you that much smarter than he?

I, for one, agree with sanjay. Let Holywood do what they do best. stereo, quadraphonic, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, etc., offers options and choices. You don't have to go with any of it. Heck, there are plenty of folks "stereo" is too much. My father being one. He argues that when one listens to music, you should be looking for the nuances of the music, not the sound.

I don't agree with his position, as I think good sound and stage "adds" to the correct interpretation of the nuances the artists are trying to deliver.

But my point is - to each his own. If you don't like it, well, don't get it. Can't be so hard now, could it? Be happy. Why are you bothered so much with 7.1, etc. Are you trying to make us think, look and feel exactly the way you do?

Regards,

Nope, I'm not trying to make people think like I do, although the world would be a much better place if that were the case

My original point was that there is a lot more information in the soundtracks of movies than the vast majority of people realize. Because of inadequate setup and/or compromises in things like speaker placement and acoustics, they are generally not receiving anywhere near the full impact of what is in the soundtrack in it's unaltered state.

I work on the movie mixing stages where major films are mixed and hear film soundtracks as they were intended to sound by the original mixing engineers. The sound is nothing short of spectacular and seamless in it's envelopment, and if the soundtrack "needs something" more, the mixers simply supply that "something" in the mixing process.

The consumer sound industry is marketing driven. As such they push any number of "band aids" to supposedly "fix" movie soundtracks in people's homes. What I take issue with is that these processes are being used pre-emptively without users, because of poor room setup, inadequate speakers or lousy acoustics, even extracting what is there in the original soundtrack. The manufacturers would like the comsumer to believe that these processes are "necessary" to extract the best sound from film soundtracks. Believe me, what is present in most soundtracks sounds better than all the post processing in the world can provide.

If people would take more effort with things like the acoustics of the listening room (admittedly not a "sexy" topic like the newest signal processing scheme) and other factors, they would probably find that most of these post processing schemes would be un-necessary.

I wish more people could hear the sound of films on the mixing stage to see how satisfying they really are. The people who mix films are very dedicated to their craft and spend more time fussing over seeming minute details than most consumers would believe. If a soundtrack is deficient in some aspect, believe me, they take care of it in the film's original mix.

No post processing scheme, not even Logic 7 can provide as good a sound as in the soundtrack in it's unaltered state.

Don't believe me? Try to visit a mixing stage sometime and hear for yourself. Talk to the people who actually mix the films.

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited October 23, 2003).]

I believe you!

I was not really arguing that point. I, for one, spend a great deal of time and effort trying to improve the acoustic characteristics of my listening environment (my wife permitting, not always easy to put acoustic foams on the living room walls or pull the speakers 6 feet from the walls. )

I am also in the same school of thoughts as you, as far as various processing modes are concerned; I like listening stereo music in stereo. I like DD5.1 in 5.1, etc. Actually, I have yet to set up the rear 2 speakers to do 7.1 (although my system is capable). Why? 1) well, it is a lot of work to set it up, running wires, etc, 2) I have an uphill, no, un-winnable battle with the wife, and 3) I'm not sure if it's worth it. Like you say, it's got to stop somewhere. I mean, I am running out of room to put all the suff. It's not like I live in a mansion.

I like 5.1 just fine. That's for me.

I guess we are all in violent agreement, as they say on this point . What really got me was your seemingly condescending manner.

If that was not your intention, my humble apologies.

Regards,

[This message has been edited by BleakShore (edited October 23, 2003).]

Contacted Outlaw, Sherborn and Atlantic to see what plans were regarding 950 base unit and DPLIIx ....

Outlaw: sent very well thought out prepared statement stating basically that they didn't have final code from Dolby labs, and without this, they couldn't be sure if it would within memory of Cirrus Processing Chip.

Atlantic: Peter Tribeman personally answered my inquiry. Said basically same thing and elucidated that the Bass Management in these units takes a lot of code space.

Sherborn: Said that discrete 7 channel algorithm was exclusive to Harman, and they had no plans to modify unit. (Not sure if person who replied had really heard of PLIIx before)

So that's it. I think that it's probably going to be some time before we know:

1. Most importantly, whether PLIIx even makes enough sonic difference to be a "must-have" feature ...

2. Whether 950 can be upgraded or if a potential customer who REALLY wanted PLIIx should wait for next model.

cd

While you're waiting, you can always work on the acoustics of your listening room, probably to more benefit than PLIIx or any other post processing

The Sherwood Newcastle's P-965 pre/pro/tuner with DPL IIx and Dolby Virtual Speaker was delayed and isn't out yet. It still lists for just under $1500 and should sell for even less. It should be the least expensive pre/pro/tuner with DPL IIx when it comes out. It's now expected to be out in December.

Outlaw's and Rotel's entry level pre/pro's have been out for over 20 months. So far, neither Outlaw nor Rotel have announced anything with DPL IIx. Not that they have to, since no other entry level pre/pro has DPL IIx. However before long, that will change.

Best,

Will

[This message has been edited by Will (edited November 05, 2003).]