Some things are so deep into diminishing returns it's worth very little effort to worry about it. Contrast this with the considerable effort this guy is putting out, and it's as pointless as arguing about angels dancing on pinheads.

Hey! I got to use 'pinhead' in an interconnect discussion in a non-disparaging way! Is there an award for that?

Buy good UL approved wire, of suitable gauge for the run and load, and listen to some music.

YMMV.

so i have decided to get some discounted audioquest granites or make my own. i dont understand why audioquest would use pvc insulator which corrodes copper.... i will post my plans for making my wires (which im leaning towards) once i finalize them.

I use Monster Z2's, great sound, great build, probably around $300-350, for the front three. I'm not that familiar with the research that goes on with other brands, but I like the engineering that goes into monster cables, alot more that just straight copper wire.

Specifically, what are the engineering that got in Monster Z2 that justifies $300 – 350 price tag?

In other words, what is the buyer really paying for? Is it cosmetics? Is it durability against pulling and bending? Is it higher purity of copper (99.9999 % compare to other brand’s 99.999%)? Is it the braiding pattern that gives better protection against interference than other rope type copper cables? Or, is the snake oil impregnated outer jacket that can repel moisture better than other type?

I have bought / assembled a few speaker cables recently but never spent that much money on them. So I’m wondering, is it really worth it?


[This message has been edited by Spiker (edited May 05, 2004).]

yeah, i dont know either if its worth the time, money, or trouble. i am curious though. my plan is to use solid core silver as the conductor, which i couldn't get in any cable near what i am willing to spend. i really liked some audioquest half price granites, but audioquest makes themselves seem so smart and then they use pvc insulator instead of something that doesnt corrode the copper... i do have one question. has anyone ever put an insulator "tube" over a wire, i.e. jacketed the wire with insulator. how difficult is this... all the silver wire i see that is bulk and low price needs to be insulated.

i just ordered 170ft of 20ga and 130ft 17ga solid fine silver wire from Hoover and Strong for approx. $260 total. this should be enough for my front three speakers bi-wired, considering the center is only going to need tweeter because it has built-in amp already for subs in it. i am going to use the 20ga for high and 17ga for low in a four cable grouping for each positive and negative input. so that will give me 8 20ga wires for the highs, and 8 17ga wires for the lows for each speaker, except the center which will only need 8 20s for the highs. i am giving myself two extra feet on each gauge, just in case i botch something up.
their website is http://www.hooverandstrong.com/mill/roundwire_specs.htm
i am getting ready to order some ptfe spaghetti tubing from mcmaster to use as insulation for both gauges which is running $35.60 before shipping. their site is http://www.mcmaster.com/
my thoughts were to run the 4 conductor array through a slice of wooden dowel (dowel slice every foot or so) in order to keep the wires apart from one another. wooden dowel because it is way cheaper than a ptfe dowel and easier to work with.
then im going to heatshrink tube the whole dowel slice/insulated wire assembly, so that no other wires that the speaker cables bump into will damage the array of wires inside. i think i am going to use polyolefin heatshrink, since its easier to shrink that ptfe, more flexible, and less expensive. i have to see how far apart the spacing is going to be for the wires to determine what diameter dowel and respective heat shrink, or id price it now too.
finally, i am going to terminate each 4 conductor group with AUDIOQUEST CRIMP-BFA-S
bananas at the speaker end. using the same bananas i am going to crimp the 8 wires from the positive group and 8 from negative group each into its own banana at the amp end. these are $15 for 4, which is a freaking crime, but i need crimpers and i need silver, and i couldnt find any others out there. though i will look some more.
i thought about putting some polyester type mesh on top of the heatshrink tubing to protect it from tears, etc., but i dont know how much ill be spending to get everything else, so i may not do that depending on price. so for each speaker im going to end up with 8 20ga for the highs and 8 17ga for the lows (solid fine silver). which works out to 14awg to each (positive and negative) treble input and 11awg to each low frequency input. total awg per positive and negative connection (i.e. comparison to a normal non-bi-wired cable) would be 9.5awg.
i picked 20ga because it is the first gauge to not suffer from "skin effect" which only affects treble, i picked 17ga because i wanted to stay close to 20 like the trebles, but desired a thicker cable for bass response.
i think this is going to be awesome when i get them together. 9.5awg of silver would be enough, but since it is multiple wires there is no "skin effect" or inter-strandular interference on a cable that would be just one wire of 9.5awg.
ill repost with some more specs once i decide on everything else.

Some facts on wire made of various metals, and a brief foray into “skin effect:”

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/wire_resistance.html

The page starts of with information on copper, but adds info on silver and other metals. For those not wanting to do the math for “skin effect,” there is a simple table at the very end of the page.

This information, as I thought it would, kind of blows away any skin effect concerns at normal audio frequencies. I am one, however, that made my own cables out of the heavy double-shielding on some surplus Belden coax partly out of concern for skin effect (center conductor not used). But I did it in a way that cost me only about 10% more than buying 12 gauge copper wire on a 250-foot roll, so I don’t feel that I wasted any money.

curegeorg: interesting solution to your concerns, hope you’ll let us know how it works out for you. Did you consider using flexible tubing as the central ‘core’ and for strength, over which the silver wire and heat-shrink would be placed? Also, and you’ve likely thought of it, if you run the silver wire in pretty much straight lines, when the assembly is flexed, will the conductors on the outside of a bend tend to break? Perhaps you will allow some ‘wiggle room’ in your construction to allow for bends. Maybe some short-length test construction using scrap copper strands before using the silver?

Anyway, hope it goes well. Do you have a place to post ‘construction’ pics?


[This message has been edited by bestbang4thebuck (edited May 07, 2004).]

i am not positive on anything yet, other than my wire that i chose and its insulator.
it is tough to work out the best delivery method for the wire. ideally they could dangle freely (like i have room for that). that is why i thought about drilling 4 holes into the cross-section of a dowel slice and running the insulated wire through the holes. i also thought about still using a dowel slice, but cut a piece of pipe long ways and line it with plastic wrap, insert the wire assembly into the "mold" of plastic pipe and then fill the mold with foaming insulation. the problem with this is that at every place where i have the wood to seperate the wires, there will be no foam around the perimeter, only through the core... granted i could just heatshrink over the molded tube that i created to add strength, but then i wonder if the insulation will break down over time as it gets bent, etc. 20ga and 17ga wires are pretty flexible, another reason for my choice, so i dont think they would break on bends. my concerns on bends would be the wires touching one another. only one of speakers will cause the cable to bend a lot seeing as it is so close to the amp and the other speaker is not (and i am using same length cables for both).
my other thought was to foam insulate the length of the wire (like above) using no dowel slice in the setup, but to secure the wires to some jig outside of the "mold" pipe in order to keep them spaced equally.
i think this would be best, but difficult to keep the wires apart on an 8ft run, ill have to see once i can judge the stiffness of the wire/insulator combo. the foaming insulator i speak of, i will have to test its flexibility. the idea is to have a consistent surrounding for the wire, albeit a surrounding that helps to cancel out interference from the other wires. air is the best dielectric, that is why i was gonna use the dowel slices and no insulation, but now that i consider that one tight bend i dont know....
stupid speaker wires, so many options, i guess that is why there is so much ambiguity among manufacturers.
ive heard that skin-effect is not audible, but if i can make the cable to totally take it out for the same cost, just more work then so be it. using just one solid wire would be pretty impratical for other reasons as well and MORE expensive to boot.

my web space is currently being tied up with pictures of a house to be rented out. but i could probably post them.

i found another product that would simplify the proces some. it is basically four tubes attached to one another side-by-side, i would use a 4x4 array. with positives and negatives grouped together, with respect to high and low frequencies. i have to check out the specs some more and see if my insulated wires will fit into this thing though. i was thinking of making some pieces of wood to keep the 4tubes seperated from each other or was wondering if this is overkill seeing as the wire will already be insulated twice. if i dont seperate them with the wood, the positive and negative runs could wind up touching each other at multiple points, especially to one speaker.