No, I deserve to get the money, not you.

To prove my point, the most important part about cables is how well they blend in with the decor. Just ask your spouse!

Paul

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the 1derful1

[This message has been edited by Paul J. Stiles (edited July 06, 2003).]

Oh, I definitely don't deserve the money, but then again, I never said I did.

I just want it, and it will do the "audiophiles" exactly as much good to give me the money than to give it to their snakeoil salesmen who tout an "audiophile cable".

Jeff

Folks,

A thorougly enjoyable - and very long-running topic. After scroling through most of it I felt like adding some (very) random thoughts of my own.

I've never heard any difference between speaker wire. (I'll get to a neat example in a moment.) I've never heard a difference between audio interconnects. I believe I have seen a difference between some video interconnects - but just barely. And I've never heard a difference between digital interconnects. The only caveat in all of this is that the product must not be faulty (like a bad end connector etc.) And that brings me to my speaker wire example.

For years and years I used the same lousy old 18 gauge clear "speaker" wire (a couple of 30' or so lengths) for my main speakers. It sat, scrunched down along the baseboards, unseen, for at least 10 years. Then one day, when I finally got the urge to do a little cleaning up, I finally got a look at them. They were no longer clear; they were that same beautiful green colour as the roof of the Parliament buildings here in Ottawa. Yup - copper oxidation. Definitely not "oxygen free." Just for fun I took one of the lengths and sectionned it in several places. The copper had actually oxidized almost completely through. That 18 gauge wire was reduced to a pin head right in the centre. Never saw that before. So I replaced that one run with brand new 12 gauge oxygen-free speaker wire - for the heck of it. And I left the other in place. I played all sorts of music through those speakers at all sorts of volume levels. Then I swapped the cables. And yes I know it was not a double-blind listening test (the ONLY true test) but gosh darn, I could hear absolutely no diffrence between the two. So what's my point? It convinced me that if there was no diffrence between something so obviously "bad" and some half-decent brand new speaker cable, then I doubt that there would ever be any difference between that speaker cable and some "high-end" (and expensive) wire.

While reading the posts, I also liked the reference to pilots and trusting your instruments. Great analogy! I'm no pilot but I work in an organization (National Research Council of Canada, Institute for Aerospace Research) that has several world-class test pilots / researchers, and a fleet of aircraft. One of those aircraft, a 50+ year old Harvard Mk. IV, has a glass cockpit in the rear. For a year or so we've been bringing in test pilots from around the world to sit in the back seat and to participate in "unusual attitude recovery studies." Basically the rear cockpit comes with a dark "awning" that, when in place, prevents the test pilot from seeing outside. All he has are his instruments - and his body's senses. The safety pilot flies the aircraft into an unusual attitude, hands over control to the test pilot, who then is timed (by several computers) for how long it takes him (or her) to bring the aircraft back into safe and level flight. And guess what? Those that trust the instruments (with the new symbology that we've developed) instead of their senses, are the ones that recover the fastest. Off topic (but I said I would be.)

By the way, you should be able to read all about this project in an upcoming edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology. Editor-in-Chief David North flew with us earlier this year and is writing it up. (And if anyone out there will be in Montreal in September at the ACE2003 event, drop by my booth. You won't be able to miss it. It's the one with the Harvard in it!)

And to get back to topic. Early in my NRC days I volunteered to take part in some of Floyd Toole's groundbreaking research as an occasional member of some of his listening panels. (Toole's work, for those of you who do not know, was done in collaboration with several fledgling (at the time) Canadian speaker manufacturers, who are now producing some of the best product out there - like Paradigm, psb, Mirage, Energy, etc.) Anyhow, it was through my participation in this work, that I learned to appreciate the true value of scientific listening tests. And THAT's the point that I wanted to make: that science and listening can come together, to produce audibly superior products. Instruments - yes. Listening - yes. Bring the two together, in a scientific manner, and we all win.

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood

There is one thing that strikes me in this thread (as it does in the whole audiophile area) and that is the incredibly small representation of women. Without going back through this thread and making guesses at gender, I'd say the majority of respondents are male. The reason this springs to mind is because wives were used in several responses as evidence that cables matter - the inference being that if "someone as uninformed/tone deaf as my wife can hear the difference, there must be a difference".
Oh please!!!!
All this proves is that men (I am one) can be pompous when it comes to technology. Too many try to use the 'Emperor's Clothes' con on their spouses having, in many cases, been conned themself.
There is a concept I laugh at when I hear talk of 'improved' sound, better staging/depth/colour,etc. Compared with WHAT?
Even A/B testing is only comparing one configuration with another. A true comparison can only be done against the music as it was performed in the studio/venue and this is, clearly, impossible. And even if it was, we have other issues such as what volume, what location relative to the performance etc.
In short, there are so many variables in the concept of accuracy as applied to performance that the role of a competent cable is negligable. Guys, get over it. Make your wife/girlfriend/lover partner/friend a comforting drink, go to your music area, agree on something that is appropriate to your moods and enjoy the music.
Okay, rant finished. I've talked myself into putting some music on.

Maybe we should talk about politics

Or religion! (or were we already doing that?) ;-)

Or maybe the vast, unquestionable, obvious and massive superiority of vacuum tube equipment over solid state equipment....

I'll make you a deal: I'll remove all the tube components from my gear and you remove all the solid-state components from yours, and we'll see which system sounds better!

Jeff

I did a study of tubes vs SS, albeit a limited one.

When one drops a tube and a transister at the same time from the same height, they both reach the ground at the same time. However, the tube will no longer work, but the transistor will.

Hence, transistors are superior to tubes.

Case closed.

Transistors are also much easier to eat. um...not that I'd know.

-Joe

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