It appears the 950 can do the same thing as the ICBM but i may be wrong. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Joe

I believe the ICBM lets you tune each channel much more precisely where the 950 is very rudimentary bass management and is an all for one fix set at 80Hz.

The 950 can do something similar - it offers analog bass management using a single fixed crossover point of 80Hz, whereas the ICBM allows you to have more control - you can adjust the crossover for the mains, the center, the surrounds, and a single surround back channel. In many cases, the 950's analog bass management is sufficient, but if you need the extra control offered by an ICBM it is certainly a good option.

The 950 has a 7.1 output, although the two rear channels have the same signal, and has 5.1 analog bypass. (Exception: in stereo seven mode, the two rear channels are different.) The ICBM provides crossover for 6.1 or 6.2, the latter being useful if one wishes to run stereo subs.

Other than the 950’s 80Hz analog bass management, the selectivity of the 950's crossover points occurs in the digital realm, while the selectivity of the crossover points in the ICBM is analog. If someone tends to be an analog purist, the lack of A/D and D/A conversion for crossover might be an advantage.

The ICBM allows for a different crossover point for the rear/center surround and side surrounds. In the 950, the same crossover point is used for side and rear surrounds.

The importance of these differences will depend on the individual setup and goals of the user. Neither the 950 nor the ICBM will give you discrete signals for the rear-most L&R channels in surround mode.

As has been pointed out many times, the sad fact is that while using the ICBM gives you more flexibility than the 950's simple 80Hz selection, to some extent the 950's "double bass" design undermines the use of the ICBM, giving you less than optimal results.

Unless the optimal crossover point for all of your speakers in 80Hz, there is no combination of 950, ICBM, or even DVD-A/SACD player settings that will give you the best bass management solution for your set-up.

Jeff Mackwood

ps. surely the 80Hz switch could have been designed with three settings instead: i) 80Hz on; ii) 80Hz off - double bass; and iii) 80Hz off - no double bass.

ps. while I've had my 950 for quite some time now, I have only just added SACD capability. I've now come to be very sympathetic to all those before me who have decried this design choice / design fault. Every other problem with the 950 has been either i) a fault that was fixed by Outlaw or ii) a design choice for which there exists a work-around. However this one has no work-around and I now consider it the one true design fault of the 950's otherwise excellent design.

ps. I'll try to hold off beating this horse any more!

Can you point me to a link discussing the pitfall? I think mine sounds pretty good........

950 Owner's Manual: page 34, 2nd column, under "Analogue Bass Management".

Jeff Mackwood

I am interested in this combo also. I have a pair of DefTech subs which I would like to run in stereo. What I am looking to do is use the ICBM as a subwoofer controller for both a two-channel stereo setup and a separate 5.1 multichannel system. I was thnking of setting it up as follows: run stereo sources through my NAD pre-amp, splitting the signal via balanced output to an NAD amp and RCAs to the ICBM and then on to my subs. The .1 SPDIF output from the 950 would also run through the ICBM. I have fairly big Polk speakers all around, which would be powered my 5 Marantz monoblocks. Would this setup work with the fixed 80hz crossover? Would I actually see true stereo bass or just a hard panned dual mono?
Rick

For the NAD pre-amp, you would get true stereo subs, but you would also get some "double bass" on those stereo sources since the signals going to the mains (via the NAD amp) would be unfiltered, full range signals. Depending on the crossover point used and the frequency response of the speakers, this may or may not be objectionable.

For the Model 950, routing through the ICBM with the subwoofer signal should work fine so long as you don't have the NAD pre-amp on at the time. Since it will just be splitting the signal from the 950, it will be a dual mono sub signal in that case.

I assume the fixed 80Hz crossover you are referring to is the analog bass management on the 950's six channel analog input. Since the only thing happening downstream of the 950's processing (either the fixed 80Hz crossover or the digital triple crossover) is the dividing of the subwoofer signal, there should not be a problem. You'll just have to be sure only one system is running at a time, which will be true anyway since you are using the same subs in both systems.

Thanks for the helpful reply, Gonk. I think Im going to hold off on the 950 until the 1070 is out and reviewed (Any updated ETA?) I will definately pick up the ICBM, if only for the ability to remotely control the subs level. I did have a question on the 950- is the 80hz crossover mainly a problem with smaller or mismatched speakers? My speakers, while not identical, have similar drivers and are all full range.

80Hz has long been something of a standard crossover point - most bookshelf speakers, center channels, and surrounds can get to or at least close to 80Hz without dropping off much, and it is also the speaker-to-sub transition point chosen by THX as their basis of design for home theater speakers. For a great many people, 80Hz is a pretty reasonable crossover point.

It may be worth clarifying that only the 950's multichannel analog input is limited to the 80Hz crossover point for all speakers. For any digital audio sources (DVD's, HDTV, CD's, satellite, digital cable) and for stereo analog sources, the 950 offers bass management control in the digital domain that is basically identical to the ICBM except for the lack of stereo subwoofer outputs. You can select different crossover points betwen 40Hz and 150Hz for the mains, the center, and the surrounds.

No word on the 1070, I'm afraid. The latest news was the year end newsletter .