I'm just putting together my 5.1 unit and wonder if this item is needed, considering
the sony is a pretty advanced cd/sacd/dvd player....I also have the 950, as well as a 2 channel amp and a 3 channel amp.

Anyone have the sony 999es and your thoughts are appreciated.

cheers
joe

From what I understand, the 999ES has some pretty good built-in bass management, which would allow for reasonable operation without the use of an ICBM. With the 950, you already have the option of its analog bass management assuming your speakers are compatible with an 80Hz crossover.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

many thanks!

Gents-

Just saw your post. I've had a Sony 999ES for about a year and a half. As a DVD player it is great for the picture. Audio?, not so sure. Regular cd's sound much better using my 950 to decode instead of the Sony. I have a number of SACD's and frankly am not at all impressed with their sound. Have the ubiquitous "Dark Side..." that sounds thin as does an Alison Kraus compilation. Orchestral is no different (the Zander Mahler 3).

Off topic? Maybe, or an ICBM may be necessary for my Mag 1.6's.

Umm...After reading those comments, I would have to question the way you have your system set-up. I too have the DSOTM SACD and it sounds anything but thin. IMHO, I think you have a bass management issue somewhere in your system.

If you could list out your complete set-up, including 950 bass management settings, that could be helpful. Not to be rude, but something just sounds wrong...

Jason J-

I don’t feel you are rude at all. I'm a highway bridge design engineer and in this industry one gets used to having nearly everything one does questioned up to the time the job is let and then the contractor takes over the criticism. But I have 160-180 of them out there and none have failed yet. A few have been replaced due to age and neglect.

I probably don’t have everything set up correctly. While I’ve been doing this, audio, since the early 1960’s (wow, typed 1690’s first, feel like it sometimes) and do believe this system is the best so far, I am sure the setup can be improved.

In any event your request gives me reason to review all the settings.

Outlaw 950 - 755
5.1 input bass management control is off (down)
speakers size XO
Fr large 40 hz
C small 100 hz
Sur small 120 hz
Sub off

Sony DVP-NS999ES for both DVD and SACD
Size level
Fr large L&R 0 dB
C small 0
Sur small -1.5
Sub none

Speakers: Magnepan 1.6 MMG C center 1.6
Surround 2 Dynaco 25’s circa 1973

Other
Rega 3 with Bluepoint cartridge and Sound Values tubed pre-amp as the phono stage for about 3000 lp’s – classical-opera-jazz

Sony 54” RPTV NBC HD off air, local ABC and CBS are digital, too, but are too cheap to broadcast HD, Directv HD. Why does Sony make the top edge just 3” deep? I had a devil of a time devising a way for the MMG C to sit on top and its tripod feet are just about 4” deep.

My reference to thin is a relative value, relative, I’d say, to what I was expecting from SACD.

Your settings seem to be ok but I'm left with a question.

Have you ever thought about adding a subwoofer? Besides adding the extemely low notes which gets all of the big press, subwoofers also help to fill out the lower mid-range of the frequency spectrum. After reading a bunch about Magnepan speakers (I'm seriously thinking about auditioning a pair when I get some funds), their major weakness seems to be in the low end. I bet if you were able to do a spectrum analysis of what's happening in your room versus what's actually on the CD's, you would find that you're missing a lot of information, not just the lowest of the lows.

Here's a semi-related example of what that missing bass information means to your brain. Have you ever talked into a regular, "dynamic", microphone? If you have, you may have noticed how your voice gets a bit fuller the closer you get to the microphone. This is technically called, "proximity effect", and, to your ears, it adds a boost in the low end of your voice. You could get rid of this "boost" pretty easily by either backing away from the mic or having the engineer "roll-off" some of the low range on the EQ, but some people like the effect and keep it. It adds a certain "fullness" that their voice would otherwise be lacking. Taking this back to your current situation, I believe that while your main voice is fine, it could use some of the "fullness" a subwoofer could add.

The advantage of having the analog bass-management of the 950 is to allow the easy integration of a subwoofer with sources that require the direct input. Also, after reading about your Sony player, it too offers bass management that you could use to integrate a sub with your system. Basically, your system is ready to add a sub without much hassle.

Integrating that sub with your room and your system properly is a topic for another post. It's probably the toughest job a home theater owner faces. Just check out the current thread in the "950 Saloon" for the current subwoofer debate.

To summarize, you're ready for a sub!! If you don't feel like looking through all of the current options before purchasing, see if you could borrow a friends. All you would need would be a subwoofer cable, basically a long interconnect, to get it to work with your system. It would give you a small taste of what you're missing so it might be worth the shot...

Edit: One other easier test...Check if your speakers are out of phase by reversing the speaker wires at one terminal on your amp. Could be that simple but the sub will still help!!

Good luck! Please post your findings...


[This message has been edited by Jason J (edited August 26, 2004).]

I have had the 999es for about 20 months now. The U.S. version comes with some pretty unimpressive opt-amps in the audio output stage. Acording to the service manual for this unit (which I purchased from Sony), the Japanese and European versions have better op-amps. I guess Sony thinks that Americans are deaf or something.

What?


I replaced these (putting in I.C. sockets as well) with better ones. This improved the sound noticably but it is not as good as a xa777es player, but closer than what it was in stock form.

I use the ICBM for all my bass management and do not use any bass management in any of my Sony players.

Paul

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the 1derful1

Jason

I’m sure the speakers are in phase, beside red-to-red, etc., they’ve been checked against the Avia disk and more than once.

Another issue so far unmentioned is the room. It’s largish, 18’ +- each way with a sloping ceiling, 8’ rising to 12’. This is about 3300 cf and 5’ double doors opening into an even larger room. We didn’t build this place, just bought it.

Agree I’m ready for a subwoofer; been thinking about one for some time so this week ordered an LFM1. Fed Ex tracking says Sept. 1. Should be fun although I’m pushing the WAF pretty hard.

Will keep you posted, J J, thanks for your thoughts and help.

Gents, I've got both a Pioneer Elite DV-38a for DVD-A and a Sony SCD-C555ES for SACD running through a Sony TA-P9000ES. Both the players have bass management, but neither one works very well. In fact, using bass management on any SACD player requires it to convert the DSD datastream to PCM to allow the DSP's to do their thing, and then to the DAC's for PCM conversion.....bad idea. Both the Pioneer and the Sony sound a LOT better through the ICBM. BTW, Pioneer's Hi-Bit Legato Link time-domain optimized DAC's are superior to just about everything else out ther, including Sony's vaunted Pulse-Current converter's. Unfortunately the newer Pioneer DVD's have skimped on the transport and the analog output stages, but they still sound good. Give a DV-37 or 38a a listen sometime, especially through an ICBM into a good L/R/Sub set-up.

I also have the DVP-NS999es DVD/SACD/CD player. The analog output stage (in the US version, other parts of the world get better opamps, according to the factory service manual) uses some pretty cheap opamps. I replaced them (and installed sockets) with better opamps. The Analog Devices AD826 or the Burr-Brown (owned by Texas Instruments) OP2132 are noticeable improvments!!!

I use the Sony TA-P9000ES to do various switching functions between the 999ES, SCD-XA77ES and a couple of other sources. Following the TA-P9000ES, I have an ICBM for bass management and active crossover function for my speakers and subwoofer. Bass management in my other pieces of equipment is not used.

Bridge Guy

I'm assuming that you have now integrated a sub into your system and am curious to know what your thoughts are regarding the addition?