I am considering bi-amping my Paradigm 7SeMk3 main speakers (currently bi-wired) with an Outlaw Model 7100). Is the ICBM an appropriate "electronic crossover" to use to make the bi-amping active instead of passive?

A secondary question is how the heck do I disconnect the passive crossover inside the Paradigms?

I gather from your post that your Paradigm speakers are two way speakers. Even if they are three way, the ICBM would not be appropriate for an active crossover for your Paradigms because the crossover frequency (between the subwoofer and the front Left and Right, or even the surrounds, or whatever) choices on the ICBM are 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120 Hz.

A verion of the ICBM intended for use with Magnepan speakers has somewhat higher frequency choices but still nowhere near high enough for your intended application.

For a two way speaker system active crossover, you would want crossover frequency choices suitable for a woofer-tweeter crossover, which would probably be in the low kilohertz region (probably around 1,500 to 3,000 Hz.) Even if you were looking for an active crossover between a woofer and a midrange in a three way speaker system, the ICBM would not be appropriate because the woofer-midrange crossover would probably be in the range of a few hundred Hz. to a kilohertz or so.

Additionally, for biamping a two or three way speaker system, you want a selection of crossover slopes. Having the ability to set the high-pass crossover frequency seperately from the low-pass crossover frequency, as well as the crossover slopes and other characteristics (such filter as "Q") may be needed to make an active crossover a suitable replacement to the passive one built into your speakers. The passive crossover built into into your Paradigms may doing more than just blocking inappropriate frequencies from getting to the various drivers.

If one were to make an active biamp crossover for use solely with you model of Paradigms, it could have no user adjustable controls for crossover frequency, slope and other characteristics, like your present passive crossover has. A "universal" active crossover would have to have a wide variety of user adjustable settings to match the crossover to the intended application (speaker system). This would result in a more elaborate and costly active crossover.

So, the short and direct answer to you question, mdickson, is NO. The ICBM is not an appropriate "electronic crossover" to use in actively biamping your Paradigms.

The ICBM is an excellent choice for an active crossover to use with a subwoofer, though.

Paul

------------------
the 1derful1

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I now know that my Paradigms have a passive crossover described as "2nd order electro/acoustic at 1,800 Hz". So, I understand why the ICBM isn't appropriate for an "active" bi-amp scenario.

Forgive me since I am a novice, but how do I get an "active electronic crossover" then? I simply want to get the most out of hardware, since I have "bi-wireable, bi-ampable" speakers, and I plan on purchasing the Outlaw 950/7100/ICBM, and a yet-to-be determinded Universal Disc Player.

Thanks again.

Ripping the passive crossover out of your speakers and replacing it with an active one is one of those things that if you have to ask how to do it, you shouldn't even try. Aside from posessing the appropriate instrumentation to measure what you are doing, you would need to have the advanced knowledge to know how to do it - in which case you wouldn't need to ask.

While I spent only a small amount of time searching for equipment, I have determined that to truly bi-amp or tri-amp, most of the time one would have to custom self-construct something based on proven designs. In order to for a manufacturer to have something available, either they would have to know all there is to know about your particular loudspeaker(s) and amplifier(s) in order to compliment the crossover points, gain levels, etc. needed, or they would have to provide a myriad of adjustments so that the end user could adjust to his particular situation. In the case of the latter, the end user would have to know how to adjust for the specifications of his system components, if he could even obtain enough detailed information from the manufacturers of his components in the first place.

As SH points out, testing would be needed to determine the final setup in any situation. Either one has to be able to this, or they have to know someone or hire someone.

There are loudspeaker manufacturers who have spent the research dollars in the design of their equipment in order to bi-amp or tri-amp with the amplifier output going directly to the loudspeakers without passive crossover elements. In those cases, you are buying not only the loudspeakers, but also loudspeaker-specific electronic crossovers and amplifiers, either built in or separate, but designed as an integrated system to follow the end user’s sources and pre/pro. This is usually a rather expensive path.

I have some loudspeakers that allow for a bi-amp setup, but they still, as designed, do not allow direct amp-to-driver connections. Even in a bi-amp setup per the manufacturer’s instruction, portions of the passive crossover network still remain in the signal path to each driver. In order to remove those passive components, any active crossover prior to the amplifier(s) would have to mimic any signal modification that the passive crossover was designed to accomplish.

Because I have some education and experience in the field, I’m willing to carefully experiment and hope to tread softly into an active crossover situation during 2004. Because all of my HT loudspeakers are of the same model, if I’m “really impressed” with the result in an A/B comparison, I can replicate the setup for as many of the other channels as I wish. I hope to report on the process and the results, positive or negative, in the coming year.

If you still wish to go down this path, learn, learn, learn first. If you’re still interested, begin your experience with items which will be no great loss, should something become damaged. By all means, safety first! Enjoy.

Good advice from all...thanks to Paul, soundhound and bestbang for your input. I think we are beyond the intended topic for this Forum, but since we have gottent his far...I'll ask a last question:

Assuming I can accomplish a direct amp-to-driver connection in my 2-way Paradigm 7SeMk3's, I would then want to buy an active electronic crossover prior to be installed prior the amps, then hire someone to set it up, test, and configure accordningly, right?

Again, as I am a novice, forgive me but it doen't seem difficult to buy an active EC, and hire someone who knows what they are doing to configure it?

My knowledge isn't anywhere approaching "advanced" in this matter, but if I can't figure this out I feel like I am going to waste the extra 2 channels in the Model 7100, which is what got me into this whole bi-amp thing anyway.

Thanks again for your input guys...

Yes, you could hire someone to do the design work. An off the shelf active crossover is going to be only part of what is needed, however. If there is any "voicing" done for the individual drivers within your speakers (there very likely is), this frequency response / phase compensation would have to be incorporated in addition to the basic need to split the signal for bi-amplification.

In my system, I use a Linkwitz-Riley 4th order electronic crossover configuration at 500Hz that I designed and constructed myself. In addition, the high frequency driver needed a low-Q notch filter at 1.6Khz to pull down a very broad plateau of about 6db in it's frequency response. The crossover also handles the 60Hz subwoofer crossover for my stereo subwoofers. This is an example of what would need to be done.

One of the reasons for bi-ampling is so that you can select the best power amplifier for the frequency band of each driver. For instance, you might select a good, modest powered tube amplifier for the high frequencies where the smooth character of a tube amp would make the biggest impact. You could use a good, stiff solid state amplifier for the woofer, where the high damping factor of solid state would be of good use in controlling the driver.

Using identical amplifiers for both frequency ranges (as you indicate you would do) is not a terribly good idea and throws away a very large benefit of going the active crossover route.

As you can see, to do it right, you will need to expend some serious money. You really need to ask yourself before you jump into this whether simply upgrading your speakers to better ones would be more cost-effective. If you do decide to hire someone to do this, just make very sure that you are getting someone qualified to do this very specialized work. Some "home theater installer" guy down the street is almost certainly not going to be able to do the job correctly. You would need a real professional designer who knows about electronics, speakers and acoustics and has done this sort of thing before - preferrably many times before!