I've been toying with the idea of buying an Outlaw 755 amp to go along with my current home theater setup. My reciever is an older HTR yamaha model 5.1 rated at 100x5. Now, when I listen to music, I'm not necessarily cranking it up very loud (maybe around 85 db max), and I'm *guessing* that I never exceed the 100wx5 rating. What benifit do I get by adding an amp (any amp) to my setup? Will I get more detail at lower volumes? Is it worth it? What can I expect?

For what it is worth, I have Paradigm Studio 100s, along with the matched studio surrounds and center.

Please let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Paul

A couple thoughts. The rating on that receiver is typically going to be 100W/channel when two channels are driven to that level - the shared power supply can't drive all five channel to 100W. Getting a separate power amp will alleviate that and offer you the full rated output for each of the channels. There's also the fact that receiver amps (even from solid companies like Yamaha) are often a bit overstated. One other reason that somewhat larger amps are often preferred is for transients - the bigger amp gives you room to handle those brief moments of peak demand.

The Studio 100's are big, hungry speakers. I've found that even with my Studio 60's hooked up to a good power amp, they like to have a little bit of volume before they really open up, so I wouldn't expect a magical transformation at low listening levels. For average listening levels and beyond, though, a separate power amp would be a nice upgrade.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Thanks Gonk!

My question to you is, though, what does "average listening levels" mean? Can you tag a db on there?

Thanks,
Nert

BTW, I really enjoy all of your posts and your reviews.

Nert,

I would probably consider "average listening level" the level at which you typically listen to your music and movies. (Whatever the volume setting is on your reciever that you typically use).

I think gonk was saying the same thing I have been trying to explain outside of the forum...even the Rockets seem to open up (sound stage grows wider) when you give them more power (increase your volume). When you and I demoed the Axioms....the higher the volume...the more "in your face they got"....what I have noticed with the Rockets was that with more volume, the wider they got.

From what gonk was saying, it sounds like your Paradigms are very similar. With the addition of a clean power amplifier, you will give the speakers more power, and they will grow wider (open up, become more enveloping) at what might be your common listening level, and with increased volumes.

By the way...it looks like you got your stars.

Gonk, feel free to help me out...I know Nert is teedering on the need for an amp...and if it will truely help him...I think he should take the plunge. He and I have tried to talk about the real difference between seperates, versus just a receiver, and I'm simply not intelligent enough about audio components to help him out. I do like my seperates though...and I think that you get cleaner power with a stand alone amp....but I can't relate that to how it will help him...he has very good speakers, but what I would consider a cheaper receiver (no offense Nert). If only I could get him to try an amp and see....

That's a pretty good explanation of the behavior I noticed in the Paradigms while demo'ing them alongside some DefTechs. Starting out at a lower listening level (think "just trying to watch the news in the morning while some folks in the house are still asleep), the DefTechs presented a somewhat better soundstage, but once you got up to a more typical listening level (listening to music or watching TV after work, for example), the Paradigms start to really fill in, and it was their behavior under those conditions that helped convince me to get them. The 85dB listening range that Inertia's talking about for music listening is comfortably above the level where I would expect my Studio/60's to open up, although I'd have to experiment a bit with an SPL meter to try to quantify the transition point.

I don't think I said this explicitly before, but I would consider the 755 to be a good match for the 100's. The Yamaha clearly is able to drive Inertia's 100's, which it certainly should - after all, my old Model 1050 drove my Studio/60's with 65W. On the other hand, even an amp like the 7100 could offer more reserves for the 100's when they needed it. He might try prying your 7100 out of your rack for an evening to see what difference separates can make with his system, or even dragging his 100's over to your place to try the 950/7100 combo. A separate amp, even with the same power rating, could be an interesting contrast to the Yamaha's internal amps. After the 7100, the 755 would be a case of "more of the same" - same improvements, plus some at more substantial loads - for the Studio/100's.

Thanks for the additional info Gonk.

I've offered to take it over, but he hasn't taken me up on it yet. I would like to hear how his speakers sound with and without it, since I'm look at the Paradigms now. (Secretly, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to buy the same speakers as him to have a great listening experience...hence why I started looking at the internet only companies). But, I know he has good speakers....I can only imagine what they sound like if they open up even more. I'll try to keep pushing him to let me bring the amp over...and listen to them.

Do you think the amp being hooked up into someone's system would require a recalibration, is that purely a receiver/pre-processor thing?

Thanks again Gonk!

If he borrowed your amp, he would probably want to run through the test tones again just to check things out. In my experience, calibration will be affected by the pre/pro, speaker, and room most of all, but different amps can make a difference too.

As far as having a cheaper receiver, ya, I would agree. But you should have seen the one I had before this one - now that was CHEAP.

I say that, however, and I can honestly say that I like my Yamaha and don't have a problem with it at all (hence me asking why do I need to get an amp)- to me, my yammer hammer sounds great.

Also, I still have a problem understanding what you guys mean by "opening up." I never did get an indication of what "opening up" meant at Incog's house, regardless of volume. Maybe I didn't listen hard enough...

One of these days, Incog, you can come over and bask in the glory that is known as a "pair of Studio 100s" hooked up to your amp. My best guess is that it probably wont occur until right before bonuses come out and before I take the plunge on a new piece of home theater equipment! That being said, however, you'll have to bring beer (not that cheap stuff you drink) and pick up some burgers too! - Oh, and bring some cables, preferably the outlaw cables...

Anyone else notice that I do a lot for this guy?

Ungrateful I tell ya...I think you should be buying the drinks since I hauling that heavy thing to your house. :p

I don't like mass produced received myself...that was why referred to is as cheap. If you can get it at Best Buy, it shouldn't be driving your high end home theater stuff.

Now...if you just don't like Outlaw (since you only have one piece of their equipment...to my five..LOL)...I just noticed that AV123 is releasing their pre-processor and amp..and it looks pretty stylish. They even have other stuff...like a line conditioner (which I am going to investigate when I get some time).

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Later all!

Easy, Incog. Your starting to get me angry!

If only I could take back your rating. :p

I agree.

Thanks for all of your comments Gonk....

No problem, Incognito.