I’m looking forward to the release of ‘Signs’ 1-7-03. My two trips to the big screen were a blast. I have not seen an audience get that involved in years. It would play a large role in my New Years Eve’s plans if they had gone ahead with a Dec. sale date. Wish they had.
Any other noteworthy releases coming? Recommendations for those who want to drive the HT dB rather than the highways NY’s eve?

From everything I have seen it seems that the early part of the new year will be lackluster in comparison to the last half of this year. Which isn't all bad my wallet needs a breather anyway.



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m-mmeyer
GO TWINS
My DVD's

I know that a few of these are guilty pleasures but I am looking forward to getting "XXX" on Dec. 31( the Vin Diesel pic, not the skin pic) Also I am looking forward to "The Borne Identity", which both my wife and I loved, and I felt was a much better spy-thriller than last summers "Sum Of All Fears". An new Special Edition of the previously released X-MEN movie, now labeled as "X-MEN 1.5" will be coming with more deleated scenes, a full DTS soundtrack, and lots of behinds-the-scenes footage. But currently I am just extremely glad to have gotten the Farscape Season 1 Box Set for Christmas and will be spending the duration of my holiday going through that set as well as negotiating my way through Vice City on the PS2, RAPTURE!!!

-Jeremy

A late Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to ya there Lena and M-Mmeyer!

Hi, belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you also!. Just saw this tonight. Did you see “XXX”?
(the mostly clothed version ) For some reason that one did not draw me to the theater. Do you recommend? Although I did (kind of) develop a crush on Vin Diesel in “Pitch Black”. I’m smart enough not to fall for them in real life, but I like the dangerous guys in my books and movies. Although I was disappointed in VD’s role in “Fast & Furious”, which did not do anything for me.

Mmeyer seems right when I roam BB right now …there’s just not much out. I’m still just waiting on ‘Signs’ …the only release I’m excited about

It was an allright popcorn movie. Imagine if Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay made an action movie that actualy had shots that lasted longer then five seconds...and it didn't insult you by having more then one HUGE GAPEING plot holes.

Sorry, I finaly saw Pearl Harbor this week and feel slightly dirty.

Hey, its better then Peral Harbor. And better then Die another Day....so hopefully that helps.

Jason

I saw XXX in the theater and really liked it.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

I saw XXX at the theater and liked it and I bought the DVD the other day and watched it again with my wife. She liked it also. She is also waiting for Bourne Identity to come out on the 21st.

Mike

Yeah -- that was another good one...

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Thanks to all for the XXX and Bourne etc recommendation. Will hunt them up soon.

Regarding “Signs” husband knew I was waiting on it and brought it home last night for me. If you have not seen this movie at the theater I highly recommend it for a fun evening.

It sports only DD 5.1 and a THX optimizer on the purchased DVD.

The transfer is not of the best quality, AKA ‘LOTR’ but adequate.

However the audio is a blast on a 950/770/ Vienna Acoustic Setup.

This may sound weird but for a complete audio treat and especially those who love the styling of past directors and movies “Alfred Hitchcock” and the “The Birds” don’t skip the opening credits.

The score is VERY retro on opening credits and gets you in the correct mode for what’s coming. Watch it early in the evening so you won’t scare the neighbors cranking the volume. As the orchestra strikes crescendo notes starting halfway through credits the Credit itself disappears with the same speed as the emphasized cord in a sort of tunnel effect. Roll opening credits with your dB up and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Lots of old time scary ‘bump’ in the night, edge of your seat fun.

For the sound alone, - Worth a rental/purchase for the fun score played through any capable subwoofered HT setup.

Back to the grind.


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited January 08, 2003).]

Man there must be something wrong with me.

I rented Signs, and I have to say it was one of the most boring movies that I've watched in the past year. I loved the score...it's very Hermanesque (Hitchcocks longtime colaborater/composer). But the film itself...man it just bored me.

I don't know...very few of the "shocks" shocked me. In fact the only time I jumped was in the cellar...near the coal chute. The rest of the directoral decisions, while I understand what he was doing, just fell flat. Maybe I've seen far to many of Hitches stuff (whic many of the directoral decisions seemed to be based upon) but it was like M. Night just took the techniques without taking the real "meat" of what made the techniques work.

There are numerous shots that are very "Hitch", but I'ld reccomend checking out Rope...which has one of my favorite "oh my gawd...what's going to happen...edge of my seat" moments in ANY movie that I have seen. Signs just felt...wrong. Forced...I don't know...to me it just felt bland.

Then again I've been under a lot of stress this past week, and may not have been as "into" the movie as I could have been.

OH, and if someone could tell me the "twist" at the end of the film, please let me know...I must have completly missed it.

Jason

Man there must be something wrong with me.

I doubt it; we all have different tastes in movies/music and the hardware that delivers it to us.

I think I ‘attached’ fun to Sign’s due to my first viewing experience. The audience was on usually good behavior..…Not one cell phone…crying baby..etc. The seats were packed and as one body the entire theater stayed perfectly quiet or jumped or screamed or laughed (hersy kiss hats) together. I don’t think I’ve been to a movie in years where it worked out that way. So it made me look forward to the DVD purchase. (in fact I just gave my first copy away and have to purchase another).

I did love the throwback to Hitchcockian styling, I really enjoy a ‘fun’ kind of scare, competently executed rather than that depressed jaded sensation which settles over me after watching too many ‘gore feast’ in a row. The ‘ Oh gross” kind: ‘Hannibal” (very fresh meal at the Dining table).
A movie like ‘Signs’ just seems more psychologically healthy. In the same way that ‘Rope” treats the subject of self-perceived superior intellect used as a justification to negate the necessity for adherence to baseline moral standards. Hitchcock treats his killers’ motivation in a more intellectual way (and within the censorship boundaries for the era) and…”Silence of the Lambs” another. Signs were a throwback to the days of more innocent scares.

I loved Joaquin Phoenix’s reaction to the Brazilian BD party footage when he was in the closet. Moments like that made the movie for me.

Could I ask what you mean by “someone tell me the twist”? I’m not sure enough of what clarification your requesting to try and reply.

OK...anyone who hasn't seen the Sixth Sense or Unbreakable stop reading. I don't want to hear your griping about how I w3recked the movie watching experiance with those two films.

So. In the Sixth Sense, he's dead. That's the twist. (Which after all the hype-and the fact that I hadn't intill 6 months or so after it was released and had to listen to all the hype for 6 months) was kind of a let down. It was good, I liked it, but when I finally got to the end...I was just like "that's it...this is what blew everybody's mind?"

In Unbreakable, the twist is that my man Sammy Jackson is the bad guy. He's the super-villian to our super hero and is responsable for the deaths of thousands of people...kind of disapointing for me, but you know. I'm kind of a cynic.

Now in Signs I've heard that the "twist" is that they aren't aliens at all, but rather inner demons, and the whole thing is a dream, or a prelude to armageddon...yada yada. The only reason why I'm asking is that this film has so many plot holes to me that they cant be aliens. I've watched it twice now...and still cant find any strings to support the demon/alien theory. About the only theory I can come up with is that "aliens are stupid" theory, and the the meaning of the title Signs is simply the $$$ signs showing up in M.N.S. eyes from duping people into a second rate sci-fi thriller.

Like I said, I'm just trying to "get" the angle, because for some reason I dont.

Spoiler: Don’t read if you don’t want movie details.
Now in Signs I've heard that the "twist" is that they aren't aliens at all, ….

AH HA…got it. M Night Shyamalan stated that he did not want to get ‘locked’ into the formula of having to provide a twist (or flip) after UB and 6th S. Therefore no ‘twist’ in S. The aliens are UFO. The title is representative of crop circles as advance evidence of the aliens navigation for landing sites.. But “Signs’ is also a type of person. “There are two kinds of people”. Group One, who believes in simply good or bad luck. These believe we are each alone and therefore completely on our own with a 50/50 shot at a good outcome. Or Group Two, who see a hand.and greater power behind everything, and therefore think life is not just a collection of serendipitous or deadly coincidences but often interactions with a force beyond us IE: miracles or ‘Signs”.

The flashbacks are Gibson regaining the faith lost upon the death of his wife. It was not electrical synapses firing randomly when she died; she gave him a precognitive hint for the danger he would face…”Swing Away”. The son had asthma for a reason…”His lungs are closed”.

Gibson starts the movie as a bitter Group One type and ends by regaining his faith that there is purpose behind the universe.

The movie’s intent was not emphasis on the aliens rather focused on one family’s reaction during a mind-bending 48 hrs. They had to rely on whatever inner resources they were capable of (just as in UB and 6th S) and I feel that if Shyamalan’s does have a theme or style in all his films to date that would be it. A protagonist in angst facing personal demons and finally moving past disbelief to an acceptance which allows them to tap inner resources and fulfil their destiny. As regards ‘lame’ aliens I’ve seen many arguments concerning that topic. The primary complaint the use of H2O. Did not bother me as I see evidence of human’s standing/walking/working around catastrophically fatal substances all the time, (geologist walking around lava flows). Humans (just as Night’s aliens) adapt by avoiding direct contact.

Well if I'm suppost to take it at face value then I'll feel free to gripe about it all I want.

To me, it was very well done...untill the end. At that point it was like NMS had just given up.

***SPOILERS***

For example:

The aliens are idiots and cant figure out how to use a door knob?

Even though they must have some exceptional muscles in their legs to outrun a well fit baseball player...and leap to the top of a roof unaided, they cant kick down a door being braced with a pic axe?

You lock yourself in a celler with no weapons? And what farmer in rural america doesn't keep a gun in the house...or at least would run out to wal-mart and get one when he finds this stuff going on in his back yard. Why not a shovel...heck a kitchen knife worked before. Why not grab one or two of those? At least in Night of the Living Dead (which I recognize that the cellar scene wa directly "inspired" by) they had the common sense to pack heat.

The water. Yes, everyone is griping about the water, but it bugs me to no end. War of the Worlds was more plausable...even though that's a bit of a streatch because any advanced military force is normaly given innoculations for at least some of the more "common" diseases in the area. But here we get aliens who cant even wear a shirt and pants when ever farm house has runnning tap water. And the lava comment isn't realy a good argument. The geologists stil[/] wear protective gear. My girlfriend works in a lab and is constantly around radiation and caustic chemicals. She doesn't handle this stuff bare handed...she has more common sense. And these aliens [i]dont? Huh?

Even if the aliens are harvestng people, why do it one on one? Spray large cities and send in a clean up crew. You've got dangerous animals and intelegent animals...you dont sneak up on them...you take them out from a distance and then you pick up the carcases.

Like I said, at face value theres to many of these things to make me feel like this movie was believable. A lot of people have been compairing it to hitch (mostly the birds), but to me the birds was far more plausable. Even though it didn't give any explination on what was going one, it was more believable and plausable then signs. Even though some people complain that there isn't an ending, it was far more satisfying then signs ending. Tha'ts what gets in my craw the most. People are going ga-ga over this and compairing it to a far superior film, and a far more effective movie, and I cant figure out why.

NMS is a very good director, and I dont faul the direction...just the storytelling. However I feel that the general public hasn't taken the time to see competent directors at work...most of the stuff out today is rather weak compaired to films from years ago. I feel that it's his strength of direction in a time of rather weak direction that makes people like him, but that doesn't mean that we have to simply like his films because they are well directed. It pains me to say it but even Hitch dropped some films that are very well crafted, but were still duds none the less.

Jason

Strength does not grow proportionally with mass even on earth. And speed or jump capability can be out of proportion to brute strength. An Olympic runner can achieve about 27mph. A rabbit 45mph. Cheetah 70mph. An impala can jump 10 ft up from a standing start. (an elephant very strong, is not going to clear tall hurdles, - of course on earth mass factors into all) I thought it was a nice touch that Night
had a chromatophores equipped alien. While chameleon behavior is characteristic of many predators to increase their effectiveness by reducing detection that precipitates flight of faster prey. There are predators who rely on stealth and surprise due to a lack of brute strength. And again Species with an utter lack of defensive capabilities use these methods for protection.

I watched a heated argument started by this very film. It was really an interesting topic and revolved around the perception of moviegoers that all aliens have to be endowed with superior ability and intelligence. Many pointed out that man (faintly) has penetrated space, with out the slightest assurance than he will be prepared or experienced to handle all contingencies that might arise. And mankind ever achieved distance and discovered some form of what appeared to be a populated planet it would not take him long before ‘equipped’ or not he just had to land firma terra to check it out.
Some pertinent human military historical moments were detailed where strategy was employed but the slightest overlook of a tiny ridiculously blatant (with hindsight) oversight resulted in defeat for a superior numbered and equipped force. And the converse, - forces which infiltrate laughably unprepared in situational awareness.
Have you ever found a mechanically based device in a junkyard? That looks highly specialized and displays a high degree of tooling and precision. While pondering its functionality you can conceive of no task for which it might have been designed? There is someone who could pick that item up and use it appropriately, however it is currently out of your sphere of experience or capability to put it to any use.

Honestly I’m just shooting the breeze because I really class the movie ‘Signs’ as nothing earthshattering but just sheer entertainment (park disbelief at the door). Yet since I liked it, I can lightly consider matters detailed above towards my enjoyment of the film without caring whether it truly explains the science and rational behind why things work as they do in Nights worlds.

I have noticed that NS seems to have an aversion to the use of weapons of force in all 3 films discussed. In fact the lack of weapons (other than the use of the body and soul) that his protagonists are armed with even though he briefly references other characters use of force - is what is beginning to stand out as a trademark of Nights movies to me. I am beginning to expect less gore/violence/ use of mechanical weaponry when his leads respond to a threat but more a use of something that is intrinsic that internally they come endowed with.

When the argument over the lack of these aliens’ weapons brought to ground or used from the air and the lack of guns at the farm were discussed in another forum. I was surprised by many that posted growing up in rural areas where the patriarch of the family had not a single firearm on the property.

Me however, I’m not the stand in the corner and scream type, I would have been digging out every shovel/pitchfork/butcher knife - AND wiring my 770 straight to door handles.

I still haven't seen Signs, so I've been only lightly skimming this thread lately. Some of SLL's comments about "traditional" science fiction aliens reminded me of a science fiction novel by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle: Footfall . Not to give away the way the story unfolds, but it looks at the scenario of a species achieving space travel that isn't really as well-evolved a tool-user and intellectual as the human race, and that species stumbling across Earth. It's the only book I know of that has drawf elephant paratroopers invading Kansas.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I know of that has drawf elephant paratroopers invading Kansas.

You got me...that is now on my must look up list. (besides I really like elephants)

You now, it's hard to try to follow a closing remark like wiring a 770 to a door knob (as I wonder if it is a 4 ohm doorknob or an 8 ohm doorknob). Footfall is one of my favorite books by Niven & Pournelle. It's got some good twists along the way. I'd re-read it myself if I had time at the moment, but I've got three books going already and am waiting to get my hands on a copy of a book written by an acquaintance. It's due out tomorrow -- I cooked up some numbers on the hydroelectric power generating capabilities of Niagra Falls a year or two ago for him, don't know how it fits in. Very curious about that one...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Lena..(oh oh...why do I sense a Darko-esque discussion being generated by this film). You make valad points, but ponder this.

If the aliens aren't strong enough to break through the door in the cellar, how were they able to get into a house that was boarded up? We see (during the "fight" scene) that the windows are broken, and the wood that was boarded up was snapped off. Now granted there could have been a "crew" of them or something, but if there was a "crew" of them that could snap the boards on the windows...then why the problems with the door? More importantly we are shown that these creatures seem to have some fairly decent mass...since one takes a nick big blow to the side/ribs with a bat and is still standing. If it was a "lighter weigh" alien my guess would be that it's ribs would have snapped like a twig. If it's a heavier massecd alien (akin to human physiology) it would need more strenght in it's legs to support the mass. Either way...the logics still dont hold up given the information that the movie provided.

Yes, I am aware of very minor tactical errors resulting in major military difficulties. I'me reminded of Douglas Adams Hitchhikesrs Guide to the Universe series...where he discribes a species being driven to war against the planet earth due to television waves (i think) wrecking havok with their society. THe do all of the science, build a great intercalatic fleet and speed off to earth, where the entire fleet is devoured by a dog...They had no idea of the size of earthlings, and never gave it any consideration.

Yes, I can understand that, but throughout the film we are told that they have been "scouting the area", and that they "seem to be avoiding the lakes". So appearantly they know that di-hydrogen oxide is lethal to them. They aren't advanced enough to have cling wrap? They can make their ships invisable? why not their clothes?

Yes, some films you have to check your brains at the door. But to me, once you set up the logic behind the film, you need to stick to it. There are only so many "oh come one" moments that I can take before a film goes from "good" to bad. It's just me, but there was just to much to swallow.

Jason, sorry was out the weekend and also riveted for a time to the Colombia news. I’m in the area of the leading edge of the onset of incident. I did not hear the bang, I was sleeping, but my sister a little to the northwest of me did…it set her dogs barking. It seems so close to home incepting overhead as it did, although emotions here are nothing compared to what Houston and Florida are going through. This is perhaps an easily misinterpreted statement to make, but I would give much to have been in the Columbia crews rooster even factoring the high cost they paid. I think my deepest desire and greatest regret was I did not think of the possibility that I could have worked towards goaling for that program from HS on. I can’t imagine the experience of looking through a shuttle window at the blue ball and I would risk all for that opportunity. I am happy that they had the sensation upon return that they had preformed their assigned tasks successfully rather than a catastrophic event on the pad. I can only hope they were feeling deep contentment and joy when they did rotate for home.

Maybe that’s why I do cut sci-fi more slack (or really any genre) that’s pulls an emotional response from me while viewing. The bat on the chest is a great example of swiss cheese continuity issues if we are to take other parameters seriously….. why do I sense a Darko-esque you pegged me! I do obsess over something I like I feel this urge to 'share the joy'!

“I've got three books going already and am waiting to get my hands on a copy of a book written by an acquaintance” That’s how I ‘used’ to be when I had more time…(and since I will stay up all night if I’m hooked…not conducive to business the next day…I try to stay away utterly these last couple of years…every so often I binge…let me know if your acquaintances' book is a good read, (my topic of interest range, - pretty much includes anything, if well written). It would be fun to read something to which you would have a faint connection by --2 degrees of separation!

Sorry, but being a chemist I have to correct this. Hydrogen hydroxide.

It's been one of those days.

Having been a fan of "hard" science fiction literature for a lifetime, I have learned to leave my critical assesment skills at the door when it comes to movies. I expect only fantasy or space opera and so am seldom disappointed with a screen translation of even a favorite book. "Signs" falls into that category of breaking the rules of hard science fiction, yet it seems to work as entertainment in the general category of science fiction. Since we come to this forum as home theatre enthusiasts using Outlaw gear, let me be the first to praise the subtle but well engineered sound track. The attack on the farmhouse used precision surround sound in a masterful way to produce an atmosphere rarely seen in previous offerings.
From previous comments in this thread, I get the feeling that there are a few "hard science fiction" enthusiasts out there and would be interested in comments on other movies that satisfy.

I agree about the soundtrack, I really thought it quite effective and had a lot of fun blasting the guys out of the house rolling just the opening credits alone a couple of times. I honestly have not perused Sci Fi much in years, and I don’t know why as it was very satisfying to read in my past. There is a book that wowed me I was thinking about the other day…. I’d like to track down. Written by a female remembered very faintly and I thought titled ‘Eight” subject; some sci fi slightly slanted mystical connection between music and math. (because math boggles me…there were theories in that book if I can remember more along the line of physics which are sometimes easier for me to make connection with. Would love to run into it again.
I’ll have to think awhile, but one which comes to mind in the last years was slim on any alien logistics that needed to mesh…..was CONTACT. What pleased me most about this film? Probable the fact that the screenplay was based on a story by CS. It was chockfull of thought provoking moments based on thoughts by a man who spent a lifetime supporting initiatives in space. Enjoyed the sophistication of the conflicting ideas and beliefs of humans in their explorer mode. Whether that search is for religion or science. Sagan’s disdain for traditional religion is well documented, and I lack it but as one who finds religion and science inexplicably melded, I could deeply appreciate Ellie's paradoxical position of begging to be taken on ‘faith’. When select government officials had not proof, but a indicator that at least a portion of her experience could be documented. ‘Donnie Darko’ was full of holes but I loved trying to wrap my brain around the space and time connections in it. And the tragedy of his ‘choice’ was effectively portrayed by its tone to me. I could also relate to the cynical parody or satire characterization of adult American suburbanite’s behavior so humorously displayed throughout that flick. If it has a least ‘some’ of those effective (for me) ingredients I can forgive a film (pass over) it’s lessor moments. But what one finds fascinating may elicit yawns from another. Every choice is relative. Curious, I think I will go on a read soon…What would be your top Sci Fi based recommendation?

If touches an emotional cord, I can forgive it anything….kinda of like my husband.