Really JT, we must get your priorities straight. Do you want to spend money on this: or on this: (products surrounding home theater).

just messsssing with you

Haha, that's pretty funny. I already have a pretty nice setup for my home theater:
Mirage OM-5 mains
Mirage OM-C2 center
Bose 301 surrounds
Marantz SR6200 receiver
I know there's no Outlaw equipment there yet, emphasis on yet. I'm waiting to get my own place and then I'll get some more equipment. I'm just out of college and still live with my parents. They only live 15 minutes from work and I don't have a big desire to get my own place yet. Saving huge amounts of money in the process.

I would like an amp to power my speakers, but I blew a socket before when I still had the Bose 701s. It was strange as the socket was not the one the HT was plugged into, but further up the line. I don't want to get an amp and further risk burning the house down.

Hopefully Outlaw will have their High end pre amp out when I do get my own place. I don't want a 950 as I don't think it would offer enough improvement to justify spending $900. When I upgrade I UPGRADE. Then I can finish out the Mirage set and look at Outlaw amps to power them.

The computer is because I love to play games and have to have good stuff. My current one is three years old. It still holds its own pretty well, but is starting to show its age a little.

OK Lena....

i finaly watched Donny Darko the other day (actualy I went through it twice. The first time without the commentary, the second time with the commentary.)

Overall I liked it. But as far as it being suspensfull/scary...I never quite felt scared or jumped. Yes, Frank the satanic bunny's voice was well done, yes for the first half of the movie (up to the point where he starts reading Grandma Death's book) kept me wondering what was going on. Yes, plotwise it's definatly a standout from just about any movie within the past 10 years. But it didn't creap me out.


***SPOILER ALERT***

***SPOILER ALERT***

***FROM THIS POINT OUT I WILL BASICLAY GO OVER THE ENTIRE MOVE...FROM BEGINING TO END***

***DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE FILM***


I guess to me it was the ending that made me go...OK, that was kind of a cop out. I mean if the whole reason for him doing the things that he did were to go back in time and basicaly get crushed by a jet engine then what's the point?

Follow my logic:

1. Donald doesn't get killed by the jet engine. Donnie Lives.

Score one for Donnie

2. Donnie breaks a water main, resulting in him getting out of school, walking the pretty girl home, and then having one hot high school girl friend.

Score one for Donnie

3. Donnie sets fire to Patric Swayze's house, enabling the authorities to find out that he's running a kiddie porn ring.

Score two for Donnie, one for simply for setting FIRE to patric Swayze's house (I mean, come on..how can you hate a film with that) and two for getting a kiddie porn scumbag off the street.

4. By doing all of these things up to this point, Donnies folks go out of town, This enables all the neighborhood kids to party like it's 1989. And Thus Donnie to get it on with his girlfriend.

Score another one for Donnie

5. His sister gets to go on the Dance Team trip, and gets exposed on Star Search.

Donnie is a God among men.

So as I see it, Donnie in the tangent universe is batting 6 for 6. Now if I was Donnie (or Frank) I'ld just say..."OK, this is so much better then getting KILLED by a stupid jet engine that get's sucked through a time warp.

And this is where I start to lose faith in the ending...

You see, if it wasn't for Franks constant nagging, Frank would never have been KILLED in the first place. Now one could say that Frank HAD to die, otherwise Donnie wouldn't have been able to get out of the house in the first place...which is a valad point. But if we are working backwards through time. (Which we are...he lays a trap for himself BACKWARDS through time without realizing that he does it.) I dont understand why HE couldn't just make certain that the GIRLFRIEND that he set HIMSELF up with in order to KILL FRANK, couldn't have just been pulled out of the street by DONNIE, and then he could have just make certain that FRANK HAD THE FRIGGIN GUN, and had him commit suicide by running over the old hag. See, then Donnie is still the man, all the good things have happened to the good people, and Donnie is still keeping mr. tinky happy by dipping it in the well on a semi-regular baisis with the girlfriend...so to speak.

BUT NOOO, Donnie decides that the only way he can make things straight is by going through this song and dance, setting himself up, and getting flattened by a jet engine, which will only result in:

1. Donnie Dies

2. Donnie Doesn't Get the hot chick, and she will no doubt go on to star in one of Patric Swezy's...ahem..."family" films.

3. Patric Swayze doesn't get exposed for running a kiddie porn ring, resulting in more of his psycho-babble being taught at the high school and more kids turning into zombies. (Not to mention that velvet Swayze poster is still hanging up in that mansion).

4. Donnies sister doesn't get to appear on Ed McMahns Star Search, resulting in her working at a Wendy's until her 20's.

5. Everyone in the tangent univers is now un-created. (Yep, I've seen enough episodes of Star Trek TNG, and read enough issues of Grant Morrison's Invisables to know that EVERY TIME you collapse a tangent universe everybody in it dies.) So Donnie just un-did infinity. No wonder he's crushed by a jet engine...GOD'S ROYALY PISSED OFF AT HIM.

Under further analysis, Donnie isn't realy a tragic, or heroic figure, as he is just REALY STUPID when dealing with fourth dimentional movement.

Now granted I'm no wiz with it myself. I have problems with just going FOREWARD in a fourth dimention. Hey, I have problems figuring out how laong it's going to take me to walk to work so I can get there on time. But upon further thought, Donnie just needed to be a little smarter then he was.

Now it is possible that this entire thing was set up by Grandma Death just to prove that she's not some crazy cranky lady. But since Donnie dies anyway, poof, tangent universe gone. Old cranky lady is still nuts, and God still is royaly pissed since Patric Swezy is still on the streets and will go on to star in Dirty Dancing, and Ghost, and will cause women to swoon untill 1995.

So to summarize:

Yes, I like this film. Yes, I strongly reccomend it. But the bottom line is this:

When trapped in a tangent universe created by a 4th dimentional artifact, get the hot girl. After getting the hot girl, SCREW THE SATANIC RABBIT. Kick Frank SQUARE IN THE NADS, push HIM through the wormhole, and live happily ever after pondering why in heaven's name the Smurfs dont have reproductive, because you sure enjoy using yours.

Jason

[This message has been edited by fmcorps (edited November 05, 2002).]

Thank you.

SPOLIER ALERT: DO NOT READ IF YOU INTEND TO RENT WITHOUT KNOWING THE MOVIE

Okay, I think I’ve got this sucker down. (Just falling in the vernacular you so colorfully describe the movie in ). You have to have your rulebook handy. I am very familiar with it, since everyone that has seen ‘Donnie Darko’ here and has had time has requested to watch the extras on the DVD, - Sparrows book, “TPOTT” and deleted scenes and Directors comments.
Key Rules (I pulled out main points)
Chapter #1: The 4th Dimension is stable but not impenetrable. Incidents which corrupt its fabric are extremely rare. IF a Tangent Universe occurs it will be unstable capable of sustaining itself no longer than a few weeks. It will collapse inward forming a Black Hole in the Primary universe capable of destroying ALL existence.
Chapter 4: When a vortex opens ( around Donnies House) an Artifact is the first sign (Jet engine). The Living will perceive it with great interest (where DAT come from!)
Chapter 6: A Living Receiver is chosen (Donnie) to return the Artifact to the primary universe. Those surrounding the Living Receiver known as “Manipulated” will fear him and try to destroy him.
Chapter 7: The Living Manipulated (pretty much everyone Donnie knows) are prone to bizarre violent behavior and unfortunate result of their task to assist the Living Receiver (Donnie) in returning the Artifact. The ML will do anything to save themselves.
Chapter 10: The “Manipulated Dead” (Frank & Gretchen) are more powerful than the Liv. R. If a person dies in the tangent universe they are able to contact the Living Receiver (Donnie) through the 4th Dimensional Construct. The Manipulated Dead will often set a “Ensurance Trap” (Gretchen's Death-see the Chapt name on the DVD) to ensure that the Artifact is returned.
Chapter 12: When the Manipulated awaken from their journey into the Tangent Universe they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams. Some will not remember.

In the movie setup, we know Donnie has a history of sleepwalking. I think you have to assume that since Donnie has the power to “choose” whether or not to return the artifact. Either he would have been “out of bed’ when it hit in the first place. And/or it really doesn’t matter, because once it is here (as a sign) he has the power to return it by being in that bed or the universe ends. The second a vortex occurs, Frank already exists with the power to manipulate time and circumstances. So he begins by making Donnie ‘think’ that he saved his life by “WAKE UP” and getting him out of the crush zone. Honestly would you have listened to a 6 foot rabbit that looked like that or told it to get the @@@ away and leave you alone….unless you started out by thinking whatever ‘it’ was it ‘saved’ you.

BY that way that’s what first ‘caught’ me in this movie and created the tension, I thought it was a ‘Satanic’ rabbit, handing Donnie an axe and all that….what intrigued me was ‘the twist’ everything the rabbit did was to a purpose (saving the world).
Donnie: Why did you make me flood the school
Frank: They are in great Danger

Donnie: When will this all end
Frank: You already know that……
Donnie: What happened to your eye?
Frank: I’m sorry.

Everything that appears as destruction that Frank has Donnie do, eventually proves to Donnie that ‘Frank’ does know and is leading him correctly. (Donnie’s slow smile when the newscaster states…”the kiddy porn dungeon’)

By the way nice touch - if you flip through the newspaper articles in the extras on the DVD. Jim Cunningham (once the primary universe is back on track)….commits suicide in Oct. (the same month Donnie returns the artifact)
Remember “Mad World’ when Cunningham is sobbing. He obviously awoke ‘remembering’ (Chapt 12 rule). The shame and guilt of being exposed, and decided to end it.

Yes, you've got to read "The Philosophy of Time Travel". See http://www.ruinedeye.com/cd/time1.htm if you have trouble reading it off the DVD.

Lena, have you read the short story Graham Greene's "The Destructors" refered to in DD? The text can be found at http://www.upol.cz/%7Eprager/e_texts/destructors.htm

What are your thought on the relationship between this and the movie?

***SPOILER ALERT***

****
THE FOLLOWING DOCCUMENT CONTAINS VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS ON NUMEROUS POINTS OF THE MOVIE "DONNIE DARKO" IF YOU READ ANY FURTHER WITHOUT SEEING THE MOVIE YOU WILL SPOIL IT FOR YOURSELF, AND WHATS THE POINT. SEE THE MOVIE FIRST, AND THEN READ MY THOUGHTS.
****

Leena,

I still haven't read the suplemental material. To me it was a movie about a 4d suicide/sacrifice. What I'm basing my interpretations on is a vivid imagination, and quantum and super string physics (bless you Warren Ellis, Grant Morrision, Carl Sagen, and Albert Einstein.) Here are my takes on the movie:

1. There aren't TWO vortexes. Your seeing the original vortes..it's start point is October 31, 1988 Tangent Universe, and it's end point is October 2, 1988 Prime Universe (or actualy, a dimentional crossing as discribed in vibrational quantum and super-string theory.) The "artifact" as you call it is the engine. It's broken the light barrier and has traveled backwards through time in order to start this whole mess.

2. I disagree with you in the argument that Donnie has the power to decide weither or not to chose to return the artifact. His coice was weither to get out of bed and live, or to stay in bed and die. At the end of the film, the jet engine from October 31, 1988 still winds up in October 2, 1988. He hasn't returned it at all. The only differance is that Donnie is Dead in this Universe, and in the other one he lived until October 31, 1988.

That's why he created the TU. He knew he was going to be crushed, and decided that it wasn't his bag. By chosing NOT to be in his bed, he created a tangent universe (which according to some theories happens ALL THE TIME). But for some reason, he chose to UNCREATE his tangent universe (and strangly, terminate the lives of everyone in that tangent universe). So the question is, why does he chose to do it.

My theory is that SOMEONE in the film can work forewards and backwards though time. I'm not convinced that it's Donnie. He CAN see time travel, (the 4d construchs...those abyss type special effects that we see are actualy a concept raised by some of a perception of 5 or 6 dimentional beings who can "see" time. IF they were to look at an individual, one of the thoughts concerning what it would look like would be a "strobescopic" effect which would last to infinity forewards and backwards. I like the way the movie presents it, with energy constructs setting up a path for people to follow.) But Donnie seems to want to commit suicide in an extremly 4D way. If I was Donnie I'ld simply say screw it, this world kicks butt. I've got the hot girl, can do what I want, and get to play the stock market in just a few years so Ill be able to buy Microsoft for pennies and be rich by 1995.

Nope, someone in this film is pulling the strings.

Is it Frank? Nope, Frank winds up getting shot in the eye (which has to be extremly uncomfortable), and gets to spend the rest of the movie walking backwards though time as a spirit in a rabbit suit.

D...Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
F...Why do you wear that stupid man suit?

To me, this is the idea that time travel is reserved to energy sources. Of which both Frank and Donnie are. (Which also holds up with some quantum theories).

F...I can do anything I want, and so can you.

But in the TU, this realy doesn't work out well for either of them. Frank get's to play "popeye" for all of eternity, and Donnie winds up being on the lamb because he's a murdering, houseburing, schoolflooding, mascot impaling anti-hero. He had things going great for a while, but well...that entire killing Frank thing realy kind of hampers the happily ever after thing.

So I dont think it's Donnie.

Gretchen?

Nope, I haven't seen any proof that Gretchen gets a darn thing out of these events aside from her first shag. Which, now matter how great it is, cant be worth getting run over by a trans-am.

So, who else knows about time travel?

Could it be that Grandma death is behind Gretchen and Franks deaths?

Hmmm...

Ponder this for a while.

Grannie Death was a nun, but she lost here religion.

The only words that Grannie Death speaks are "all living things die alone".

She is the one who steps out in the street, causing Frank to run over Gretchen. Resulting in Donnie killing Frank. Resulting in Donnie wanting to "put things right" and sacrificing himself. Resulting in the TU to implode upon itself. Resulting in EVERYONE dieing together.

Could it be that Grandma Death is actually the one behind the deaths? Could it be that she engeneered this whole thing? Could be, her book points Donnie in the whole "time Travel" direction. Her spoken words cause him to question the nature of life. Her actions created the chain reactions.

So, perhapse were are to infer the following:

Granny Death is REALY pissed off at God. So much so that she decides that she doesn't want to die alone, creates a dimentional tangent that she controls, set's Donnie up so he can bring about the end of the universe, and then, can die happy knowing that EVERYONE will go with her.

OF course, this doesn't realy hold up either, since there are still numerous Granma Deaths spread out across numerous parrellel universes. (according to the same theoretical quantum mechanics that enabled the TU to be created in the first place.) So while one Granny Death will be more then pleased with her time in uncreation...the others will be fumingly POed that one of them got to pull it off.

Of course that's to assume that the TU was distroyed in the first place. It is a tangent universe after all. Wile ONE Donnie Darko (Darko Prime) was killed, there's nothing to say that that would effect the tangent universe to begin with. It is a tangent universe. The actions in one universe aren't necessarily echoed across the other universes. (That's why they are tangent universes). There may be some echoes, (simmilar events occuring across universes) but not necessarily anything other then that.


Nope, still doesn't make sense. I mean GD is still getting the most out of the package. But I dont think she realy wants to see the TU's wall fall down like so many poorly constructed high school plays' sets.

So maybe it's actualy a 4D battle between Grannie Death and Donnie Darko. Sure sounds like a comic book plot to me. Grannie finds out that there is another person who can travel through time. (Considering that the events up to Donnie burning down the por collectors house are his doing). At this point she decides to get rid of him, so SHE decides to send another version of Frank back in time so donnie will burn down Swayze's house (Still, how can you NOT love that...take that Patric Swayze) thus resulting in Donnies mother to go on the trip, enabling him to throw a party, get his freak on, and find the note from Frank about getting beer...thus causing a light to come on which MAKES Donnie want to search out Granny, and causes Gretchen and Franks deaths.

So in the end, it could just be that Grannie wanted to teach Donnie a lesson. But Donnie being the unpradictable teenage that he is, decides to set things straight, and winds up going one step to far.

Just some thoughts. I'm still standing by my original decision that Donnie is just REALY BAD at constructing 4D mechinations. But then again, he's got one up on me.

Jason

[This message has been edited by fmcorps (edited November 06, 2002).]

You people have too much time on your hands! I picked up on a lot of these things without thinking too much, but, as Jason pointed out, we're still left with the question whodunnit? This was the biggest thing for me. I like to know this sort of thing. All that time line stuff is pretty cool now that I've thought more about it, but I like movies with good ending and I didn't get that here. There was too much unanswered.

SFW: Thanks for the link to the “The Destructors” I had not read it in awhile and wanted to refresh!

To get a little philosophical here. The director’s commentary on the longer version of the scene: Donnies first meeting with Frank. That this movie (to him – the director) is about an act of divine intervention; he cut the scene short so as not to hit the audience over the head with the religious aspects of Frank as a messenger. I think he calls ‘frank’ a ‘voice’. He states he wanted to leave more mystery to the audience’s own interpretation as too what ‘the voice’ is..and what's behind it. And remember what Donnie says when held on the ground by the knife as Franks car is coming in the distance. He says “Deus Ex Machina” and then says “Our Savior." DEM from Latin translates “A God from machine” as in a person or thing that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty.

The director used two choices of literature for the film: “The Destructors’ and ‘Watership Down’ (WD being a cut scene). Used I think for tone and hints that can be found in each of foreshadowing.

I think he chose Green’s short story partly for it’s tone and connivance as a plot tool. As a plot tool it has a ‘flood’ (perfect for the scene based on …look what happens when kids read this trash and then emulate it) and the ominous issue going on which serves to echo the movies mystery of whether or not what is happening is destructive or creative. (the creation of a task given to the ‘gang’ of ‘tearing the house down’ methodically by a quiet unfathomable kid). Donnie when asked by his Lit teacher says its ironic that the boys burn the money and that destruction is a form of creation and they want to change things.

The book is used in the plot to take the heat off Donnie possible exposure as a vandal. At exactly the moment that the Gym Teacher/Coach manages to sidetrack the entire emergency PTA ‘who flooded the school’ meeting with her hysterical invective’s concerning ‘pornography in our school’. Frank tells Donnie in the bathroom, “Don’t worry, you got away with it”.

I think Donnie chooses to create by his own destruction. This allows the return to and the continuation of the primary universe’s timeline. Enabling his family/friends/ neighbors/tangent girlfriend and acquaintances to follow the ‘track’ they should normally have been on. Remember ‘CHUT UP’ I think it’s a sweet touch. When he takes her face in his hands and promises that things will be better for her in the future. He knows if doesn’t die…she has no future…and no prospect of leaving the taunts and cruelty of HS behind.

And Jason…part of above relates to your issues but I have to work at least a couple of hours…will come back… But what about the ‘rule’ in this movie versions of the physics behind TU and time travel. If the tangent universe is not closed than the primary universe will be destroyed also. (All life (both timelines) – into the black hole vortex).


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited November 06, 2002).]

***DONNIE DARKO SPOILER ALERT****
***BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA***

Leena,

Since I was able to figure out this movie, and appriciate it without reading "the rules" I guess I'm not going to ruin a good thing and read them now.

I like thinking that this movie is about a teenager with the abilility to move around in time. I can also live with the fact that Donnie chose to sacrifice himself for the people that he loved (to me...the whole "if you don't do this all of reality is going to colapse into a big black hole" I kind of a...um...weaker ending in my book. It's wrapped up to nicely. I prefer to think that Frank is one of Donnie's constructs. I realy like the idea that he set all those things in motion himself by working backwards in time. (Getting a girl friend, exposing a porn ring, yada yada yada). I like that, and I prefer to think that it's a story about one person deciding to sacrifice himself for those that he loves by creating a 4d paradox. (which is what I interpreted by his smile at the end of the film.)

On a side note...

Upon watching the film again, I noted something interesting concerning the "Frank and Donnie in the Bathroom" sceen. Donnie is chipping away at an invisable barrier that only he can see.

Take for example this quote from http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.preston/
an interesting site on hypothetical time travel for the layperson:



Now upon reading this, and watching the movie...could it be that Frank IS working backwards through time. That he is a being who has crossed the light berrier. And that Donnie is aware of this, can see this barrier, and the reverse-time beings set up by this.

Granted, we're talking about a movie here...not an actual event...but I think thats what makes this movie so great. You can go off on so many tangents with it.

I also cant thnk of a better way to end the film. If Donnie just kept goin on, or those tradegies didn't befall him, well we wouldnt be scratching our heads nearly as hard and wondering what the heck we all just saw.

Jason