Well fellow outlaws...

It's the month to make your skin crawl. So what are you using to scare the pants off of your guests with your outlaw gear. Lets hear it. What movies are you watching during this monster-thon month? What ghoulish goodies are you making your AV gear shutter through? What's on your "hit list" this halloween?

Jason

I will finally see Monsters Inc. this month. That looks scary I keep toying with the idea of putting my speakers out in the garage on Halloween and using them in a haunted house. They would scare the crap out of the kids! The garage has room for 2.5 cars, so there's lots of room to do something.

Seriously though, I haven't really thought about this until now. I think I should see some of the films from the 70s and 80s. Would you believe I have not seen all of The Exorcist yet? Not even half? I'd like to find something like Grizzly too (not to be confused with The Bear).

[This message has been edited by BenjaminRigby (edited October 16, 2002).]

1. orginal "Night of the living dead"
2. Halloween I
3."Legend of hell house"

The video from my wedding.
=shudder=
Trace

/\

Very funny

------------------
m-mmeyer
GO TWINS
My DVD's



[This message has been edited by m-mmeyer (edited October 16, 2002).]

I spose i should list my top 5

5. Blair Witch Project
4. The Others
3. Evil Dead II
2. The Exorcist
1. The Changeling (1980-something)

Great films...4 of which still make me jump at points (I still cant watch the Changeling with the lights off...scares the crap out of me.)

Jason

Hello all,
OFF TOPIC APOLIGY:
Will be out quite a bit in the foreseeable future, If I try to add one additional project into my life at any given time, (with the heavy, constant effort it takes to catch-up in my business) it blows everything else out of the water. I just came off an obsessive Fall planting binge, going over the yard I have neglected for the past year. Put in 20 flats of pansies, 2 beds of perennials, two new fountains, some flagstone etc. Now I can barley walk, (sitting in front of a computer all day tends to have that effect).

Next – I have been informed by my horse partner that my presence is demanded (at least one a week) riding our 2 yr. old, to allow my rusty ability to keep pace with him while he is still at the novice level of his training in cutting. If I wait till he’s more ‘polished’ and up to the speed he will reach eventually, …at my current riding ability, I will end up hanging in the air, after he just moved out from under me abruptly 4 feet to either side.

Then there’s Christmas around the corner,…ugh… and because my 950/new DVD player/new display, is passingly fun and impressive at it’s ‘bare minimum’ set up …. That still leaves…speakers to hang TV bases to get ordered/built…. Etc. Things we are living with and not getting to… because the new setup is so nice as it sits. In other words I’ve stalled out. Its all Outlaw and Sony’s fault, it sounds/looks so good as is…it makes it hard when we are strapped for time, (and have X projects going at any given time) to get to the finishing the system.

ON TOPIC:
Has anyone seen Donnie Darko???
Weird ominous movie (has been suggested it’s similar to the weirdness in Mullahand Drive, which I have not rented yet).
Not scary in the traditional Halloween sense, but unsettling and riveting and a very good October rental…
I understand its out on DVD, since I just ran into 2/3’s of it on Satellite last night. I will be purchasing this disc…. Due to the ambience of the whole experience and the soundtrack which makes excellent use of some 80’s stuff.

Highly recommended for when your in that Twilight zone mode….. It’s a movie you’ll discuss for hours with whomever you view it. I ran into some press on the cover art and catch phrases on the DVD case, don’t’ let it fool you, it mentions ‘Final Destination’….Dark,Darker,Darko…some very misleading PR in its cover art. This movie is not what the cover implies …it’s in its own class…….

When I run into something this unique and utterly unexpected on an evening,…off satellite…with the addition of the 950 capabilities…doing its best rendition of DPL11, it is a constant gratifying surprise every time!
I never fail to be amazed.

See if these critic's blurbs intrigue you.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/DonnieDarko-1110922/
And watch out for the 6 ft bunny, he's not dressed for Easter (or children).

...By the way baristaman...I hope the wife dosen't check your surfing, or we might be seeing that other scary tape of yours titled,...Life sleeping on a Couch.

Hi Little Lena,
Way too late to be concerned. Been divorced for 20 years.
Just like to run the old vids once in a while to scare myself straight.
Trace

I see:....you keep that video in the 'Self-Help' section of your library.

Yesterday, - Just purchased the last copy on the rack of Donnie Darko (this one should gain cult status) so we could see the beginning of the movie we missed when we caught it on Satellite.
You need to read Grandma Death's (Sparrow's) 'History of Time Travel' (on the extra's in the DVD menu to understand parts of this movie).
It was great fun....I popped the DVD in, in the middle of a storm here....started thinking....wow the storm is getting closer and more intense, (I had my volume down a bit at that moment and did not realize I was hearing the DVD).

Turns out Donnie Darko starts with a track of thunder rumbling in the background on the menu, it moves wonderfully around the surrounds.

It was storm inside (and out) could not have planned it better.

The disc has 5.1 to select, and the soundtrack is good..... Now I want to find the composers’ CD cut from the movie.

This is an Outlaw movie….as in non-standard issue, first Outlaw to see it…let me know what you think!!!

Sounds interesting, Lena. I'll have to look in to that, at the very least for a rental.

I try every year to take in Disney's Legend of Sleepy Hollow. I've been in love with that since I was a little kid. I recall with great fondness sitting in my grandparents' basement with the old read/sing along 12" LP for hours on end!

In that vein, I also try at some point to take in Tim Burton's vision of the story as well. Nobody seems to be able to give a dark movie quite the feel Tim can, especially when he teams with Danny Elfman for a soundtrack.

I usually end up doing one or the other alone as it tends toward overkill for my wife. Oh well, what can I say? We all have our little quirks, right?

Particularly me…I think I’m similar to Duct Tape, infinitely useful, but with a ‘light’ and a ‘dark’ side.
and now I see I can remove warts also….

I too can love old Disney movies beyond all reason….if I’m alone, - the line…”You must learn to walk alone” from “Bambie” will get me every time, not to mention it’s paint-like soft-edged animation.
Sleepy Hollow is a great yarn, there are too few classic scary stories/books/movies.

Just saw maybe three-quarters of ‘Mullahand Drive”. I disagree with a poster or two who compared Donnie Darko to that flic…(as a matter of fact, I hated MD). A closer comparison for one of several layers going on in DD I would agree to be ‘American Beauty’ yet only as regards each Directors' applications of a similar biting sarcastic treatment over-emphasizing some extreme nastiness (we can all recongise to a degree) in a cartoon characterization of certain ‘personality’ types to be found in American suburbia.

Does any one live dangerously any more?
I really am challenging all Outlaws to view this movie. Am dying to see what my favorite guys think about it. I have to admit to my usual overboard fixation, which can settle on certain flicks, (which for me just has to burn itself out). Right now being sick as a dog with some respiratory viral thing leaves me doing things I shouldn’t (watching Donnie Darko 3 times) instead of tending to business.

The tune from a ‘Mad Mad World’ is playing through my mind constantly. I need to get the CD and loop it about 50 times to get rid of it.

Ok ok ok. Sheesh. I'll see if I can find it!

Donnie Darko is an excellent movie. I bought it a while ago when it was first released on DVD based on suggestions from the bunch over at the Klipsch forum. Nice plot twist and superb acting. Money well spent - it's a keeper.

Since this is an audio forum....

"The Others" has a couple audio scares using surround that are outstanding!

"The Haunting" sucks as a movie but the soundtrack has some truly hair raising moments, particularly if you have a bottom-trawling subwoofer.

The DTS-ES mix on "Suspiria" is quite nice. Nothing startling in the way of surround sound, per se, but just a nice audio onslaught.

PS -- I thought Donnie Darko was OK but I didn't lose bladder control over it. In fact, I realize I remember very little about it.

But it may not have been weird enough to my taste. Honest.

Maybe you were doing something weird when you watched it and that’s why
In fact, I realize I remember very little about it.

But it may not have been weird enough to my taste. Honest I’ll bite. ‘Whats’ weird enough?

What's with the vampire smiley? That's awesome!

Oh, by the way, this is BenjaminRigby. I got sick of using my name. I think this one is much better, if you know where it's from. You don't have to know me personally to know it.

I rented Donnie Darko for tonight. Saw Monsters, Inc. last night. It was very good. I also saw It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown. I haven't seen that in more than five years. Way too long.

I’ll tell you about the vampire if you’ll tell me about the name. (I can’t think of what it goes to)
Do we need to hold a Bris Mila Ceremony at Outlaw if you change your name?!
I assume you are not this Clark? “The eggs of stick insects (Phasmida): a review with descriptions of the eggs of eleven species” By J. T. Clark
Gonk told me how to vampire a long ways back, but I never attempted (it works!) Copy a link to an image of one of these animated smiles from somewhere and put it inside of these. (without the spaces) [ IMG ] [ /IMG ].

My husband bought Monsters Inc. I really liked it - great movie. I picked up the Score CD by composer Michael Andrews for Donnie Darko last night., Rather than your old vinyl of “Chilling, Thrilling Sounds Of The Haunted House” use this at more grownup party for your background Halloween audio ambiance. Its haunting synthesized compositions are very good. Best are tracks like “Waltz in the 4th Dimension” and “Philosophy of Time Travel”

The name is from a character in the Jack Ryan series by Tom Clancy (yes, they are books). "Clark" is a character that first shows up in The Cardinal of Kremlin. His roles after this story were much bigger. John Terrance Clark is a special ops guy who works for the CIA. He's a real bad ass character. There are two books that work in tangent to the Jack Ryan series, I wouldn't call them spinoffs. Without Remorse tells about his background, this is the one where people really love the guy. The other is Rainbow Six. If you don't know here's the entire series:
The Hunt For Red October
Patriot Games
The Cardinal of Kremlin
Clear and Present Danger
The Sum of All Fears
Without Remorse (takes place before all others, but written here)
Debt of Honor
Executive Orders
Rainbow Six
The Bear and the Dragon

Four of these have been made into movies, I hope they do one of Without Remorse. I haven't seen The Sum of All Fears Yet, but of the other three (if you don't know which ones they are drop dead) Clark is only in Clear and Present Danger. He's played by Willem Dafoe.

Ah , books, used to love books but no longer have time. I believe I may have read your #’s 1,4 & 5.
Back when I made more time for books I tended to ‘fit them in’ and my version of a book binge would be 8 books in 3 days. This does not make for very high retention level as I was not blessed with a photographic memory, (my # one wish if I met a genie in a bottle). Will watch out for the character in the future. I loved the film Red Oct, I’m a sucker for Connery. But have hesitated buying the DVD as I’ve heard bad PR on its quality.

What's weird enough for me?

Hmmmm....

Eraserhead
Ichi the Killer
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre

And a few others. But it's getting tougher and tougher to weird me out. Nearly impossible, I'm sorry to say.

Same goes for me: A friend and I attempted to regain the old thrill of a good scare by taking a DVD laptop into the dark woods late one summer evening to watch "The Evil Dead". This still didn't work, though a better flick might have, one that is not so easy to suspend disbelief. Maybe "The Blair Witch Project". Maybe a different movie and a different location. Suggestions?

I finally saw Donnie Darko last night. Went up to my room and watched in on my computer. I thought it was just ok. I thought is was funnier than scary or suspenseful. I think it's gotten pretty hard to scare me after going through a very difficult engineering program in college.

Boboblinds. That reminds me of my sister, 'TCSM' used to be her favorite movie. But she can’t stand fantasy or sci-fi. You can not get her to sit down and watch something like 'LOTR' or 'Alien' she could care less. I can think of several movies along your ‘weirdness’ lines, like Hellraiser with the Cenobites, ever seen that one?
I like my bad guys more to the realistic side generally, like the English actor in Rob Roy, Good actor, - by the end of the movie he truly had me hating his character and ready to see him get his “what fors”.
This would not be particularly scary, but very novel for one outing. I read about an Austin affair, I believe locals put it on …not a forum. Big screen on the river set up to watch 'Jaws” you watch from your inner tubes. Oh and don’t forget that the guys in the suba gear are roaming around underneath. (sounded like fun…I think I’d do that one) Have you ever spelunked? Try a cave with your laptop, go deep enough that’s its deepest black on earth when the illuminations are off. That one would get me…but then I can be claustrophobic.

JT, on your computer???? I liked the cinemaphotography styling of this director, nifty chapters like the first time you see the halls of DD's school. In general for me it was the story, the ambiance and scoring on this flim, I think the computer would squash some of that effect. Your right it is funny, and that was unexpected when I first viewed it, not scary in the blood & gore tradition but menacing in tone.. I like movies that my brain can bite into, and roam the possibilities, Time T/ Tangent U’s/ and subjects on whether or not ‘Fate is the Hunter’ keep me intrigued.

Yes, on my computer. I don't think my parents would have liked it very much. My dad is really against what they show the kids doing and how the adults seem like idiots. Watching movies there is actually quite a bit better than you might expect at first. I've got a Trinitron monitor, it's only 17", but it's pretty good. I also have the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 speakers from an Audigy soundcard (arguably the best consumer sound card unless the Audigy 2 has been released). It's still not the same as my hometheater gear, but it's somewhat effective. In a few months I'll be getting a very nice new computer.

Really JT, we must get your priorities straight. Do you want to spend money on this: or on this: (products surrounding home theater).

just messsssing with you

Haha, that's pretty funny. I already have a pretty nice setup for my home theater:
Mirage OM-5 mains
Mirage OM-C2 center
Bose 301 surrounds
Marantz SR6200 receiver
I know there's no Outlaw equipment there yet, emphasis on yet. I'm waiting to get my own place and then I'll get some more equipment. I'm just out of college and still live with my parents. They only live 15 minutes from work and I don't have a big desire to get my own place yet. Saving huge amounts of money in the process.

I would like an amp to power my speakers, but I blew a socket before when I still had the Bose 701s. It was strange as the socket was not the one the HT was plugged into, but further up the line. I don't want to get an amp and further risk burning the house down.

Hopefully Outlaw will have their High end pre amp out when I do get my own place. I don't want a 950 as I don't think it would offer enough improvement to justify spending $900. When I upgrade I UPGRADE. Then I can finish out the Mirage set and look at Outlaw amps to power them.

The computer is because I love to play games and have to have good stuff. My current one is three years old. It still holds its own pretty well, but is starting to show its age a little.

OK Lena....

i finaly watched Donny Darko the other day (actualy I went through it twice. The first time without the commentary, the second time with the commentary.)

Overall I liked it. But as far as it being suspensfull/scary...I never quite felt scared or jumped. Yes, Frank the satanic bunny's voice was well done, yes for the first half of the movie (up to the point where he starts reading Grandma Death's book) kept me wondering what was going on. Yes, plotwise it's definatly a standout from just about any movie within the past 10 years. But it didn't creap me out.


***SPOILER ALERT***

***SPOILER ALERT***

***FROM THIS POINT OUT I WILL BASICLAY GO OVER THE ENTIRE MOVE...FROM BEGINING TO END***

***DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE FILM***


I guess to me it was the ending that made me go...OK, that was kind of a cop out. I mean if the whole reason for him doing the things that he did were to go back in time and basicaly get crushed by a jet engine then what's the point?

Follow my logic:

1. Donald doesn't get killed by the jet engine. Donnie Lives.

Score one for Donnie

2. Donnie breaks a water main, resulting in him getting out of school, walking the pretty girl home, and then having one hot high school girl friend.

Score one for Donnie

3. Donnie sets fire to Patric Swayze's house, enabling the authorities to find out that he's running a kiddie porn ring.

Score two for Donnie, one for simply for setting FIRE to patric Swayze's house (I mean, come on..how can you hate a film with that) and two for getting a kiddie porn scumbag off the street.

4. By doing all of these things up to this point, Donnies folks go out of town, This enables all the neighborhood kids to party like it's 1989. And Thus Donnie to get it on with his girlfriend.

Score another one for Donnie

5. His sister gets to go on the Dance Team trip, and gets exposed on Star Search.

Donnie is a God among men.

So as I see it, Donnie in the tangent universe is batting 6 for 6. Now if I was Donnie (or Frank) I'ld just say..."OK, this is so much better then getting KILLED by a stupid jet engine that get's sucked through a time warp.

And this is where I start to lose faith in the ending...

You see, if it wasn't for Franks constant nagging, Frank would never have been KILLED in the first place. Now one could say that Frank HAD to die, otherwise Donnie wouldn't have been able to get out of the house in the first place...which is a valad point. But if we are working backwards through time. (Which we are...he lays a trap for himself BACKWARDS through time without realizing that he does it.) I dont understand why HE couldn't just make certain that the GIRLFRIEND that he set HIMSELF up with in order to KILL FRANK, couldn't have just been pulled out of the street by DONNIE, and then he could have just make certain that FRANK HAD THE FRIGGIN GUN, and had him commit suicide by running over the old hag. See, then Donnie is still the man, all the good things have happened to the good people, and Donnie is still keeping mr. tinky happy by dipping it in the well on a semi-regular baisis with the girlfriend...so to speak.

BUT NOOO, Donnie decides that the only way he can make things straight is by going through this song and dance, setting himself up, and getting flattened by a jet engine, which will only result in:

1. Donnie Dies

2. Donnie Doesn't Get the hot chick, and she will no doubt go on to star in one of Patric Swezy's...ahem..."family" films.

3. Patric Swayze doesn't get exposed for running a kiddie porn ring, resulting in more of his psycho-babble being taught at the high school and more kids turning into zombies. (Not to mention that velvet Swayze poster is still hanging up in that mansion).

4. Donnies sister doesn't get to appear on Ed McMahns Star Search, resulting in her working at a Wendy's until her 20's.

5. Everyone in the tangent univers is now un-created. (Yep, I've seen enough episodes of Star Trek TNG, and read enough issues of Grant Morrison's Invisables to know that EVERY TIME you collapse a tangent universe everybody in it dies.) So Donnie just un-did infinity. No wonder he's crushed by a jet engine...GOD'S ROYALY PISSED OFF AT HIM.

Under further analysis, Donnie isn't realy a tragic, or heroic figure, as he is just REALY STUPID when dealing with fourth dimentional movement.

Now granted I'm no wiz with it myself. I have problems with just going FOREWARD in a fourth dimention. Hey, I have problems figuring out how laong it's going to take me to walk to work so I can get there on time. But upon further thought, Donnie just needed to be a little smarter then he was.

Now it is possible that this entire thing was set up by Grandma Death just to prove that she's not some crazy cranky lady. But since Donnie dies anyway, poof, tangent universe gone. Old cranky lady is still nuts, and God still is royaly pissed since Patric Swezy is still on the streets and will go on to star in Dirty Dancing, and Ghost, and will cause women to swoon untill 1995.

So to summarize:

Yes, I like this film. Yes, I strongly reccomend it. But the bottom line is this:

When trapped in a tangent universe created by a 4th dimentional artifact, get the hot girl. After getting the hot girl, SCREW THE SATANIC RABBIT. Kick Frank SQUARE IN THE NADS, push HIM through the wormhole, and live happily ever after pondering why in heaven's name the Smurfs dont have reproductive, because you sure enjoy using yours.

Jason

[This message has been edited by fmcorps (edited November 05, 2002).]

Thank you.

SPOLIER ALERT: DO NOT READ IF YOU INTEND TO RENT WITHOUT KNOWING THE MOVIE

Okay, I think I’ve got this sucker down. (Just falling in the vernacular you so colorfully describe the movie in ). You have to have your rulebook handy. I am very familiar with it, since everyone that has seen ‘Donnie Darko’ here and has had time has requested to watch the extras on the DVD, - Sparrows book, “TPOTT” and deleted scenes and Directors comments.
Key Rules (I pulled out main points)
Chapter #1: The 4th Dimension is stable but not impenetrable. Incidents which corrupt its fabric are extremely rare. IF a Tangent Universe occurs it will be unstable capable of sustaining itself no longer than a few weeks. It will collapse inward forming a Black Hole in the Primary universe capable of destroying ALL existence.
Chapter 4: When a vortex opens ( around Donnies House) an Artifact is the first sign (Jet engine). The Living will perceive it with great interest (where DAT come from!)
Chapter 6: A Living Receiver is chosen (Donnie) to return the Artifact to the primary universe. Those surrounding the Living Receiver known as “Manipulated” will fear him and try to destroy him.
Chapter 7: The Living Manipulated (pretty much everyone Donnie knows) are prone to bizarre violent behavior and unfortunate result of their task to assist the Living Receiver (Donnie) in returning the Artifact. The ML will do anything to save themselves.
Chapter 10: The “Manipulated Dead” (Frank & Gretchen) are more powerful than the Liv. R. If a person dies in the tangent universe they are able to contact the Living Receiver (Donnie) through the 4th Dimensional Construct. The Manipulated Dead will often set a “Ensurance Trap” (Gretchen's Death-see the Chapt name on the DVD) to ensure that the Artifact is returned.
Chapter 12: When the Manipulated awaken from their journey into the Tangent Universe they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams. Some will not remember.

In the movie setup, we know Donnie has a history of sleepwalking. I think you have to assume that since Donnie has the power to “choose” whether or not to return the artifact. Either he would have been “out of bed’ when it hit in the first place. And/or it really doesn’t matter, because once it is here (as a sign) he has the power to return it by being in that bed or the universe ends. The second a vortex occurs, Frank already exists with the power to manipulate time and circumstances. So he begins by making Donnie ‘think’ that he saved his life by “WAKE UP” and getting him out of the crush zone. Honestly would you have listened to a 6 foot rabbit that looked like that or told it to get the @@@ away and leave you alone….unless you started out by thinking whatever ‘it’ was it ‘saved’ you.

BY that way that’s what first ‘caught’ me in this movie and created the tension, I thought it was a ‘Satanic’ rabbit, handing Donnie an axe and all that….what intrigued me was ‘the twist’ everything the rabbit did was to a purpose (saving the world).
Donnie: Why did you make me flood the school
Frank: They are in great Danger

Donnie: When will this all end
Frank: You already know that……
Donnie: What happened to your eye?
Frank: I’m sorry.

Everything that appears as destruction that Frank has Donnie do, eventually proves to Donnie that ‘Frank’ does know and is leading him correctly. (Donnie’s slow smile when the newscaster states…”the kiddy porn dungeon’)

By the way nice touch - if you flip through the newspaper articles in the extras on the DVD. Jim Cunningham (once the primary universe is back on track)….commits suicide in Oct. (the same month Donnie returns the artifact)
Remember “Mad World’ when Cunningham is sobbing. He obviously awoke ‘remembering’ (Chapt 12 rule). The shame and guilt of being exposed, and decided to end it.

Yes, you've got to read "The Philosophy of Time Travel". See http://www.ruinedeye.com/cd/time1.htm if you have trouble reading it off the DVD.

Lena, have you read the short story Graham Greene's "The Destructors" refered to in DD? The text can be found at http://www.upol.cz/%7Eprager/e_texts/destructors.htm

What are your thought on the relationship between this and the movie?

***SPOILER ALERT***

****
THE FOLLOWING DOCCUMENT CONTAINS VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS ON NUMEROUS POINTS OF THE MOVIE "DONNIE DARKO" IF YOU READ ANY FURTHER WITHOUT SEEING THE MOVIE YOU WILL SPOIL IT FOR YOURSELF, AND WHATS THE POINT. SEE THE MOVIE FIRST, AND THEN READ MY THOUGHTS.
****

Leena,

I still haven't read the suplemental material. To me it was a movie about a 4d suicide/sacrifice. What I'm basing my interpretations on is a vivid imagination, and quantum and super string physics (bless you Warren Ellis, Grant Morrision, Carl Sagen, and Albert Einstein.) Here are my takes on the movie:

1. There aren't TWO vortexes. Your seeing the original vortes..it's start point is October 31, 1988 Tangent Universe, and it's end point is October 2, 1988 Prime Universe (or actualy, a dimentional crossing as discribed in vibrational quantum and super-string theory.) The "artifact" as you call it is the engine. It's broken the light barrier and has traveled backwards through time in order to start this whole mess.

2. I disagree with you in the argument that Donnie has the power to decide weither or not to chose to return the artifact. His coice was weither to get out of bed and live, or to stay in bed and die. At the end of the film, the jet engine from October 31, 1988 still winds up in October 2, 1988. He hasn't returned it at all. The only differance is that Donnie is Dead in this Universe, and in the other one he lived until October 31, 1988.

That's why he created the TU. He knew he was going to be crushed, and decided that it wasn't his bag. By chosing NOT to be in his bed, he created a tangent universe (which according to some theories happens ALL THE TIME). But for some reason, he chose to UNCREATE his tangent universe (and strangly, terminate the lives of everyone in that tangent universe). So the question is, why does he chose to do it.

My theory is that SOMEONE in the film can work forewards and backwards though time. I'm not convinced that it's Donnie. He CAN see time travel, (the 4d construchs...those abyss type special effects that we see are actualy a concept raised by some of a perception of 5 or 6 dimentional beings who can "see" time. IF they were to look at an individual, one of the thoughts concerning what it would look like would be a "strobescopic" effect which would last to infinity forewards and backwards. I like the way the movie presents it, with energy constructs setting up a path for people to follow.) But Donnie seems to want to commit suicide in an extremly 4D way. If I was Donnie I'ld simply say screw it, this world kicks butt. I've got the hot girl, can do what I want, and get to play the stock market in just a few years so Ill be able to buy Microsoft for pennies and be rich by 1995.

Nope, someone in this film is pulling the strings.

Is it Frank? Nope, Frank winds up getting shot in the eye (which has to be extremly uncomfortable), and gets to spend the rest of the movie walking backwards though time as a spirit in a rabbit suit.

D...Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?
F...Why do you wear that stupid man suit?

To me, this is the idea that time travel is reserved to energy sources. Of which both Frank and Donnie are. (Which also holds up with some quantum theories).

F...I can do anything I want, and so can you.

But in the TU, this realy doesn't work out well for either of them. Frank get's to play "popeye" for all of eternity, and Donnie winds up being on the lamb because he's a murdering, houseburing, schoolflooding, mascot impaling anti-hero. He had things going great for a while, but well...that entire killing Frank thing realy kind of hampers the happily ever after thing.

So I dont think it's Donnie.

Gretchen?

Nope, I haven't seen any proof that Gretchen gets a darn thing out of these events aside from her first shag. Which, now matter how great it is, cant be worth getting run over by a trans-am.

So, who else knows about time travel?

Could it be that Grandma death is behind Gretchen and Franks deaths?

Hmmm...

Ponder this for a while.

Grannie Death was a nun, but she lost here religion.

The only words that Grannie Death speaks are "all living things die alone".

She is the one who steps out in the street, causing Frank to run over Gretchen. Resulting in Donnie killing Frank. Resulting in Donnie wanting to "put things right" and sacrificing himself. Resulting in the TU to implode upon itself. Resulting in EVERYONE dieing together.

Could it be that Grandma Death is actually the one behind the deaths? Could it be that she engeneered this whole thing? Could be, her book points Donnie in the whole "time Travel" direction. Her spoken words cause him to question the nature of life. Her actions created the chain reactions.

So, perhapse were are to infer the following:

Granny Death is REALY pissed off at God. So much so that she decides that she doesn't want to die alone, creates a dimentional tangent that she controls, set's Donnie up so he can bring about the end of the universe, and then, can die happy knowing that EVERYONE will go with her.

OF course, this doesn't realy hold up either, since there are still numerous Granma Deaths spread out across numerous parrellel universes. (according to the same theoretical quantum mechanics that enabled the TU to be created in the first place.) So while one Granny Death will be more then pleased with her time in uncreation...the others will be fumingly POed that one of them got to pull it off.

Of course that's to assume that the TU was distroyed in the first place. It is a tangent universe after all. Wile ONE Donnie Darko (Darko Prime) was killed, there's nothing to say that that would effect the tangent universe to begin with. It is a tangent universe. The actions in one universe aren't necessarily echoed across the other universes. (That's why they are tangent universes). There may be some echoes, (simmilar events occuring across universes) but not necessarily anything other then that.


Nope, still doesn't make sense. I mean GD is still getting the most out of the package. But I dont think she realy wants to see the TU's wall fall down like so many poorly constructed high school plays' sets.

So maybe it's actualy a 4D battle between Grannie Death and Donnie Darko. Sure sounds like a comic book plot to me. Grannie finds out that there is another person who can travel through time. (Considering that the events up to Donnie burning down the por collectors house are his doing). At this point she decides to get rid of him, so SHE decides to send another version of Frank back in time so donnie will burn down Swayze's house (Still, how can you NOT love that...take that Patric Swayze) thus resulting in Donnies mother to go on the trip, enabling him to throw a party, get his freak on, and find the note from Frank about getting beer...thus causing a light to come on which MAKES Donnie want to search out Granny, and causes Gretchen and Franks deaths.

So in the end, it could just be that Grannie wanted to teach Donnie a lesson. But Donnie being the unpradictable teenage that he is, decides to set things straight, and winds up going one step to far.

Just some thoughts. I'm still standing by my original decision that Donnie is just REALY BAD at constructing 4D mechinations. But then again, he's got one up on me.

Jason

[This message has been edited by fmcorps (edited November 06, 2002).]

You people have too much time on your hands! I picked up on a lot of these things without thinking too much, but, as Jason pointed out, we're still left with the question whodunnit? This was the biggest thing for me. I like to know this sort of thing. All that time line stuff is pretty cool now that I've thought more about it, but I like movies with good ending and I didn't get that here. There was too much unanswered.

SFW: Thanks for the link to the “The Destructors” I had not read it in awhile and wanted to refresh!

To get a little philosophical here. The director’s commentary on the longer version of the scene: Donnies first meeting with Frank. That this movie (to him – the director) is about an act of divine intervention; he cut the scene short so as not to hit the audience over the head with the religious aspects of Frank as a messenger. I think he calls ‘frank’ a ‘voice’. He states he wanted to leave more mystery to the audience’s own interpretation as too what ‘the voice’ is..and what's behind it. And remember what Donnie says when held on the ground by the knife as Franks car is coming in the distance. He says “Deus Ex Machina” and then says “Our Savior." DEM from Latin translates “A God from machine” as in a person or thing that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty.

The director used two choices of literature for the film: “The Destructors’ and ‘Watership Down’ (WD being a cut scene). Used I think for tone and hints that can be found in each of foreshadowing.

I think he chose Green’s short story partly for it’s tone and connivance as a plot tool. As a plot tool it has a ‘flood’ (perfect for the scene based on …look what happens when kids read this trash and then emulate it) and the ominous issue going on which serves to echo the movies mystery of whether or not what is happening is destructive or creative. (the creation of a task given to the ‘gang’ of ‘tearing the house down’ methodically by a quiet unfathomable kid). Donnie when asked by his Lit teacher says its ironic that the boys burn the money and that destruction is a form of creation and they want to change things.

The book is used in the plot to take the heat off Donnie possible exposure as a vandal. At exactly the moment that the Gym Teacher/Coach manages to sidetrack the entire emergency PTA ‘who flooded the school’ meeting with her hysterical invective’s concerning ‘pornography in our school’. Frank tells Donnie in the bathroom, “Don’t worry, you got away with it”.

I think Donnie chooses to create by his own destruction. This allows the return to and the continuation of the primary universe’s timeline. Enabling his family/friends/ neighbors/tangent girlfriend and acquaintances to follow the ‘track’ they should normally have been on. Remember ‘CHUT UP’ I think it’s a sweet touch. When he takes her face in his hands and promises that things will be better for her in the future. He knows if doesn’t die…she has no future…and no prospect of leaving the taunts and cruelty of HS behind.

And Jason…part of above relates to your issues but I have to work at least a couple of hours…will come back… But what about the ‘rule’ in this movie versions of the physics behind TU and time travel. If the tangent universe is not closed than the primary universe will be destroyed also. (All life (both timelines) – into the black hole vortex).


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited November 06, 2002).]

***DONNIE DARKO SPOILER ALERT****
***BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA***

Leena,

Since I was able to figure out this movie, and appriciate it without reading "the rules" I guess I'm not going to ruin a good thing and read them now.

I like thinking that this movie is about a teenager with the abilility to move around in time. I can also live with the fact that Donnie chose to sacrifice himself for the people that he loved (to me...the whole "if you don't do this all of reality is going to colapse into a big black hole" I kind of a...um...weaker ending in my book. It's wrapped up to nicely. I prefer to think that Frank is one of Donnie's constructs. I realy like the idea that he set all those things in motion himself by working backwards in time. (Getting a girl friend, exposing a porn ring, yada yada yada). I like that, and I prefer to think that it's a story about one person deciding to sacrifice himself for those that he loves by creating a 4d paradox. (which is what I interpreted by his smile at the end of the film.)

On a side note...

Upon watching the film again, I noted something interesting concerning the "Frank and Donnie in the Bathroom" sceen. Donnie is chipping away at an invisable barrier that only he can see.

Take for example this quote from http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.preston/
an interesting site on hypothetical time travel for the layperson:



Now upon reading this, and watching the movie...could it be that Frank IS working backwards through time. That he is a being who has crossed the light berrier. And that Donnie is aware of this, can see this barrier, and the reverse-time beings set up by this.

Granted, we're talking about a movie here...not an actual event...but I think thats what makes this movie so great. You can go off on so many tangents with it.

I also cant thnk of a better way to end the film. If Donnie just kept goin on, or those tradegies didn't befall him, well we wouldnt be scratching our heads nearly as hard and wondering what the heck we all just saw.

Jason

SPOLIER:
Since I was able to figure out this movie, and appreciate it without reading "the rules"…..Granted, we're talking about a movie here...not an actual event...but I think thats what makes this movie so great. You can go off on so many tangents with it.
Exactly!! That’s why I am so intrigued by a movie like this, we each bring our own history, knowledge and emotional leanings to bear when we experience film. I feel this movie contains an illusive quality of depth, you can throw the whole onion in the pot just for the ‘flavor’ or you can peel back the layers slice/dice/roast any method you personally prefer.
I do know that every gender/age viewing this movie at my house has been compelled to varying degree to analyze it. That says something doesn’t it? To accomplish that with a cross-section of viewers.

I also can’t think of a better way to end the film
Same here somehow the ending seems ‘inevitable’ particularly after repeated viewing. But I generally am happier with a ‘Happier ending!

I prefer to think that Frank is one of Donnie's constructs.
You could also take that on another ‘tangent’ that one teenager who viewed this movie suggested. They wondered if Donnie really ‘died’ the first time the engine dropped and that the whole movie was what he felt/thought/saw/ invented in his last seconds.

Donnie is chipping away at an invisible barrier that only he can see.
I know you want to stay away from the ‘extras’ But a interesting cut out is a scene called ‘Poetry Day’ where Donnie has to read his out loud in class. The director’s voiceover states something about Donnie is coming to an understanding of exactly what is coming. Basically something like: “A storm is coming Frank says…which will destroy the children….but he will deliver them from danger…he will deliver the children back safely to their doorsteps and send the monsters back to where they came from…a storm is coming Frank says…but only I can see it (or the monsters) , because I’m…Donnie Darko”
It’s bad enough to be a teenager in the usual angst without the additional pressure of being contacted through a barrier by a 6-ft bunny quizzing your knowledge of time travel with an aura of predestination and doom about him.

Yep I thought about that too, but we are basically shown that these events did happen, and that they did bleed through to another universe. We are shown that with the various cast members waking up and showing that they are effected by Donnie, and have soem sort of recripical memories from the other universe. Therefor it isn't just another "Incident at Owl Creek" movie.

Jason

Jason,

Yes, I found it interesting that that was their first comment on what was going on,,, they discarded it too in favor of actual time travel/tangent contact. But what amazed me is how thought provoking this movie is to viewers,..It’s not your usual teen flic.

“Lets assume it's an attraction. We would therefore see the particles approach one another, but would an observer on the other side of the barrier see this? As his time runs backwards, he would see the objects move apart. Yet to him it is our time that is running backwards and so he would reason that objects on different sides of the light barrier must have a mutual repulsion. Similarly, if we begin by assuming that such objects repel we will find they attract for the observer on the other side of the light barrier”

Still wrapping my brain around this one the wordage confuses me he seems to be going in a circle (or conflicting himself) when he states “Yet to him it is our time that is running backwards” and ending with his beginning, -in that net result, - both sides of the barrier (if it is repulsion) would perceive the other side to be moving backwards.

I used to love to try to wrap my brain around physics (years ago) I miss it. I’ve never read much in conjunction with time travel possibilities, just as it relates to current beliefs that within a black hole there can be no ‘time’ etc. Einstein’s approaching speed of light, - time would slow etc.
I need to get back to some of this and the current leanings. I love it.

Leena,

You're absolutly correct about the observer in a "reverse time" universe thinking that time was progressing foreward. Time, afterall, is relative to the observer.

Einsteinian physics has this same set up. If you are traveling faster then people around you (we're talking much faster...not just relative earth speeds), time changes. For you, time is the same, but for those people observing you, you would have slowed down. However to you, those people who are traveling SLOWER then you have actualy "sped up" in time...and would age quicker.

Quirky? Yes, but's it's been proven to be true using atomic clocks in orbit (and traveling far faster then syncronized clocks on earth). They will actualy move slower...but to the astronaughts, they are keeping perfect time.

So time is relative to the observer, moreso, if we are traveling backwards through time...which who knows...we could be, those in a reverse time universe wouldn't know that they are traveling backwards.

Let that cook your noodle for a while.

Jason

I should have known there was a practical reason I like 'Fast" cars/planes and horses. :}