So Outlaw's newsletter tonight announced the impending end of sales of the 1050. At the same time, they announced plans for a replacement to follow and suggested that we toss out ideas for what this new receiver should do and have -- they've apparently already pinned down the feature set pretty well, but it may not be too late to add some things to the mix. They did mention that it would be a wholly new design, not derived from anything existing (like, for instance, the 950). So what all would we like to see? I thought I'd start a thread for suggestions, starting with the obvious....

Processing Modes: Dolby Digital, Dolby EX, DTS, DTS ES, Pro Logic IIx, Stereo 5/7. The 1050 had some DSP modes like Jazz, Stadium, and Natural, but the 950 has proven that these can safely be omitted, and I doubt many of us would miss them if they were left off.

Inputs:
7.1 analog (for those folks out there who want to use direct radiating surround back speakers as surrounds for multichannel music), perhaps with an analog crossover (in which case, the three-position variation used on the Fosgate FAP-T1 might be worth considering).
Component switching with two inputs.
At least two each of coax and optical digital inputs.

Remote: Either the MX-500 in every case or perhaps an option for a basic (SL-8000 or UEI) remote or a more robust remote like the MX-500.

OK, that's a start, and I suspect that a lot of what I've mentioned is already included, but what the heck. I'm off to sleep now. Anybody else want to chime in?

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

The Zoran Processor... Dunno if that is a outlaw chipset but it seems some people are complaining that dvd's don't encode right... Maybe it's time to ditch that for something more standard?

How about cranking out a .03 or .04 THD? Make it one better then everyone else?

Maybe pump up the watts 10 or 15 more. I wouldn't go any higher since most people are using subs ... If you have the money to spend on speakers with massive drivers and have a 1000 sq foot living room to store them... Then thats what the seperates are for...

DTS ES And Dobly EX are nice but what about a SACD MODE? That would be nice too. 7.1 is ok ...

Other then that maybe a 3-5Year Warranty? That would be really nice.

And keeping the price down where the average JOE can buy it. Not as if the 1050 is over priced.... But if it is going to cost an extra 100 or 200 more why not go with a better amp?

That's my 2 - 3 cents.

Have Fun / Good Luck and ENJOY. I wouldn't change much in the way of the box and front panel or remote since you already have a good thing going. Just keep it the same style.

I'm back, and thought I'd toss out some more thoughts.

The ability to rename inputs would be very nice -- something I have always felt the 950's successor will need, and it might be cool to try it here as well.

It probably makes sense to go with five video inputs (like the 950: DVD, VCR in/out, Video1, Video2, and Video3), but the audio-only inputs could probably be accomplished with two (CD and tape/aux in/out). Although none of us will fuss if there are more inputs than that.

The 1050 lacked an A/B speaker option, and I expect its replacement to be similar. Either a second zone (similar to the 950) or a second pair of pre-amp outputs for the mains (cheaper than the second zone) might help make up for that.

Cirrus's triple crossover would be handy, and it's a very logical progression from the 1050's single adjustable crossover. Stereo bypass would be good to include, as well.

EDIT: Here's another thought, a bit weird and nit-picky. There is hopefully still an Outlaw DVD player on the drawing board, which will include multichannel analog outputs for DVD-A and SACD. When laying out the back panel of that player and the 1050's successor, you might consider lining up the multichannel connectors on both so they are placed similarly to the multichannel inputs on the 950 -- so that anyone putting an Outlaw DVD player in an equipment rack above a 950 or 1050v2 would have a straight shot down from outputs to inputs (unlike my Panasonic DVD-Audio player, which has the outputs probably 8" to the left of the 950's inputs, creating a six-cable bundle cutting across in front of other audio and video cables going into the 950). You can't match rear panel layouts with every other manufacturer around, but it could be a nice touch to maintain uniformity of this type within your own product line.



Onboard DVD-A and SACD decoding via digital input (firewire) would be cool, but I doubt it will be possible by next summer -- last I heard, there was still no industry standard encryption established. Denon and Pioneer have done it with their own encryption, but it requires using their player and their receiver.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited November 15, 2003).]

DVI/HDMI inputs are mandatory IMO if Outlaw expects this one to compete as long as the 1050 did. It shouldn't be under the "not ready for primetime" list if it's not coming out for another year. The looks need to be changed as well. If you like the 1050's looks then that's great, I'm sure you'll like it if it was changed as well.

I'd like the power to be 75 w/ch with at least 5 channels of amplification. 7 would be nice, but it's definately not a dealbreaker.

Also everything Gonk wants sounds good to me

I would like to see Outlaw consider a design that allowed field update of the software in the device. The recently escalating 1050 problems with Dolby EX are such a shame. Outlaw's outstanding customer service, arguably one of the top reasons to buy Outlaw, was left without an avenue to help. What could have be fixed by a minor software update wasn't possible. Many customers would have been happy to send Outlaw $20 for a new PROM for their 1050s if that was possible.

Software is just to complicated to get right the first time. I hope Outlaw doesn't handcuff itself in future devices and takes advantage of the "soft" in software. An additional benefit of such a design would be that Outlaw could more safely take chances on bleeding edge features in the new receiver (like they did with 6.1 in the 1050) without the risk.

I know there will be pressure to go overboard on the amplifier section at the expense of the price point. Despite how the quoted performance compares, customers that overcame the spec numbers game have been well rewarded with a superior sounding receiver in the 1050. While 6 or 7x100 watt receiver priced at $900 fits well into the Outlaw product line and would be in keeping with Outlaw's notoriety for value, this would not be a replacement for the 1050.

The 1050 was successful because of its high quality sound for $500. Outlaw is cool not only for its value, but also for the fact that they provided access to it for as little as $500. While still a good value, Outlaw equipment since the 1050 has all been at least 3x the price of the 1050. I hope Outlaw doesn't evacuate the $500 receiver market with the 1050's replacement.

I agree with sfw. A 'replacement' for the 1050 should be at the same price point. It's tempting to load up a new model with everything we think has been lacking in the old. Features now seem to be plentiful in the <$500 market with brands like Pioneer, JVC, and Kenwood adding component video swithcing and 6 or 7 channels of amplification along with the processing to use them. What the 1050 threw in was the sound quality of a much higher priced unit. I would urge the Outlaws to resist the pressure to dress out the successor and jack up the price. The 1050 seemed like a good entry product to train newcomers into separates. Their trade-in program will likely prove that true. Don't abandon those who want to aspire to true audiophile sound but don't have the resources yet.

Don't forget that when the 1050 originally came out it was priced at $600. I'd be very surprised to see the 1050 replacement for less than $650. It really ought to be competitive with other products available in that price range. If it makes any sense logistically I think they should have two receivers, a 5.1 version for say $500 and a 7.1 version for $650.

What I'd like to see is a 7.1 receiver where you could re-assign two of the amplifiers and bi-amp the front main speakers if you wanted to use 5.1 or stereo mode. Of course, the crossover would have to support this.

I like pretty much everything I have read so far.

Two that stick out that have nothing to do with sound (go figure) is the MX-500 would be ideal and DVI inputs would be a great feature as well.

How about a digital amp? If done right, I hear they can sound excellent.

Also, I am not sure about the 1050, but on the 950's display there are two levels of characters. I would really like the volume display to be larger (double level). I don't have a problem with the input and sound format being small since chances are I know what I am listening to, but I would like a nice 1 inch number display for the volume on the side.

How about Satellite radio capabilities built in?

Don't know if this exceeds the price point, but brushed aluminum would be nice also.

If I think of more, I will post it.

It must have vacuum tubes. It's a dealbreaker if it ain't.

Tubes, Tubes, Tubes! Soundhound, is that all it takes to get you interested? ................................................. Yea if its 7.1 and has tubes I'll take one too. Maybe we should start a reservation list? Soundhound, what do you think?

How about just 2 tubes on the 2 channel output? If so, how about some big VU meters to go along with it? Talk about a "retro" influence...


Audio-wise, I think Outlaw kinda knows what has to go into a new receiver. All the current decoding modes, enough analog inputs for a few sources, 6 digital inputs (3 coax, 3 toslink), twin multi-channel direct inputs , pre-amp outputs, headphone jack, stereo subwoofer outputs, 7 channels of amplification and a nice, smoothly rotating volume knob.

Besides a digital input for SACD and/or DVD-A, the biggest future questions come on the video side. DVI switching? HDMI? Component Upconversion?

If they could do it, I could see Outlaw seperating the audio and video portions of a new receiver into 2 seperate components. It would be sort of like a receiver with an external video switcher. The two boxes could then be linked by some sort of trigger or proprietary cable so that both could be controlled by the same commands. That way, if the video side changes, Outlaw wouldn't have to start over and come out with a new receiver. They would just have to update the video box and offer some sort of "trade-in" for their current customers.

A little dreaming never hurts...

Wow, here ya go Outlaw. Somebody just layed down the guidelines for a good surround sound processor:

www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/feature-ssp-functionality-11-2003.html

Most make a lot of sense. Some, well, I could see as being optional...

Pretty slick list! I'd say that's a good foundation list for a successor to the 950 almost without exception. For a 1050 successor (which would presumably inherit a price tag similar to the 1050's original $600 since the 950/7100 combo takes care of the $1000-$2000 receiver bracket), I think that you could probably sacrifice some items in exchange for price and better implementation of other items.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Below a point it adds no benefit, and the 1050 is already well inside that boundry.



What is this? I've been away - what is SACD mode? I thought SACD/DVD-A were just multi-channel inputs?

I can think of a couple of additional features:

1) A volume control that actually works. I hope I don't need to explain this.

2) Preamp Outputs and Amp Inputs. This would allow the replacement product to be configurable by the user. Additional amps could be added to drive a particularly inefficient set of mains or bi-amp a speaker. Even run a separate zone.

3) Support for dual assignments of analog and digitial audio inputs to the same device with fast accurate automatic selection (this is a step up from the 950).

I would love to see at least a partial list of the features the OutLaws plan to have in the new model. I imagine this may be top secret but some details may get a nice discussion going before it is too late to change the plan.


[This message has been edited by desperado (edited November 19, 2003).]

A couple of ideas:

- An assignable sixth or sixth/seventh channel that could be selected for either surround back or subwoofer output. This is great for small passive subwoofers, especially since most people don't have more than a 5.1 setup.

- The new Firewire digital input. I was under the impression that a standard format had been set. One-wire connection between the 1050 replacement and the new Outlaw DVD player would be sweet.

- Bass management for analog inputs. I would give this feature up if the above feature were implemented.

Some absolute, must-have features, IMO:

- headphones output with Dolby Headphones decoding

- a GOOD multi-channel simulation mode from 2-channel sources. My favs are LOGIC 7 by Harman and Circle Surround II by SRS.

- Bypass 2-channel mode WITH subwoofer output

I can't wait to see specs on the 1050 replacement!

Any of you guys into computers? How about an ethernet port for AIFF or WAV or even mp3 and streaming audio. I for one have most of my CDs stored on computer as AIFF files - same quality, more convience.

Given the USB-in on the RR2150, this is a shoe-in for connecting the 1050's sequel to a computer. I think this is an extremely elegant solution, requiring only support for the USB speaker standard from the host computer's operating system. Most modern OSs provide this out of the box.

Four items for the wish-list:

1. Two sub pre-outs and the ability to assign the LFE and each individual "small" speaker channel to either pre-out. I listened to a system setup with the LFE on one sub and the center below 80 Hz on another sub, which added quite a bit to the overall presentation.

2. I'd like to see bass equalization below 250 Hz - similar to Meridian or Tag.

3. Digital connection for decoding SACD/DVD-A ... maybe use Pioneer's setup if they license.

4. Etherenet port for MP3s ... with software for windows to connect.

Some of us old timers still use cassette decks. It would be great if the new receiver would include a Tape Monitor -- it seems like many of the new A/V receivers are not including this function.

I'm planning on (finally) upgrading my old Pro Logic receiver late next year... So hopefully I'll be one of the first customers for the new receiver!


Greg

Does any one know when are we going to have a new 1050 or something which comes after this one.
I was actually looking to buy one in the next few days, and then came and found out that they stopped making them some time back.
Well 950/7100 combi is the next level up but that is something like 3 times the cost i will pay for a succesor to 1050 ( hopefully)

So any clues !!

J

All these ideas for the latest features would be very nice but will create a problem for Outlaw. I believe Oulaw would be cutting there own throat if they went ahead with them. I can’t see any company releasing a new lower priced model (like a new receiver) with a better feature set than there current high end pre/pro (the 950). I think they need to release a big brother to the 950 first and let the features trickle down to the new receiver. Just my .02 cents.

Lasher

Where is Outlaw going with the new receiver and big-brother-to-the-950 concepts? Certainly I don't know, but I'll toss in one idea: Outlaw will introduce the 950's 'big brother' and the 1050 successor at nearly the same time. The 1050 successor will be much of the same pre/pro concept as the current 950, extending the life of the 950’s development beyond sales of the 950 itself (sure to fade when a 'big brother' is introduced), plus an upgraded amplifier section based on the 1050 as we knew it, making use of the 1050’s being traded in. Waddayathink?

Hey Folks this is my first post, but I have been reading here for several months. I have owned a 1050 for the past 9 months, which was an improvement over a JVC A/V receiver. I have been following a couple posts on other forums specifically dealing with the digital Panasonic XR45 which seems to be a hot ticket receiver blowing away just about everything under the 1K range. Some have even compared it to equipment over 2/3K, with some modification to the power supply. I was just wondering if the Outlaw design team and fellow Outlaws are aware of these new digital amplifiers, which I am sure they are, and maybe Outlaw's next receiver should be based on this new technology. I am sure Outlaw can do a better digital product than Panasonic. At a price point of $300. the XR45 seems to be the product to beat. Any thoughts?

They had the new 1070 reciever at HE2004. I saw a picture of it yesterday somewhere on the net. It was sitting beside the new retro reciever and a new amp I think. Anyway anyone have any news on the features of this reciever.

Thanks
Jay

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000443.html

is the thread

i'd like to see a digital connection for SACD/DVD-Audio as well. Then the 1070 would be the perfect receiver....for me at least.