Hello, does anyone her know if the Logic 7 that HK uses is the same as the Logic 7 used in the Lexicon products.

Yes it is the same. As best I can understand it H/K and Lexicon are all owned by the same company.

Yes, HK and Lexicon are both Harman brands, and yes, Logic 7 is Logic 7. Except when it isn't. On many (most?) of the HK receivers, you don't get full 7 channel Logic 7, just 5 channel. It is also my understanding (Harman hasn't sent me anything to play with) that the Lexicon implementations offer a lot more flexibility for adjustments than the HK implementations.

-avi

The LOGIC7 in the H/K receivers is always the full 7-channel version. Some H/K receivers only have 5 channels of amplification, but they include pre-outs for the two non-amplified rear channels.

LOGIC7 had gone through many changes through the years as Lexicon continues to refine the decoding. Most recently it was re-written to take advantage of the greater processing power of the SHARC DSP engines in newer Lexicon processors. The version in most H/K receivers is the same as the LOGIC7 in the old DC-1/MC-1 processors (minus all the configurable parameter adjustments).

Best,
Sanjay

Sanjay,
Know your the resident Lexicon expert. But I could have sworn, I saw very detailed posts last year by aggrevied Lexicon owners on the diffrences between full bore Logic 7 on Lexicon vs the HK versions.

Referring not just to UI tweakablity/ custom setting issues but the steering and ? else, -itself? [little wiggily memeory of the details something about steering diffrences also to 6 & 7 on L7 Vs lexicons implementation?}

Additionly a memory of one of the HK receivers being touted as 'accidently' going to market with more of the 'lexicon like' version on board than normal for HK's L7 last year.

Mayhap I dreamed all that. Would do a search but lifes too messy at the moment!.

Miss Lena, The Lexicon version and the H/K version are more alike than different. I think the H/K version is similar to the one found on earlier Lexicon processors (DC-1, DC-2, MC-1). The main differences: on the Lex you have lots adjustable parameters and L7 works on 2-channel and 5.1 channel sources (on ALL H/K receivers, L7 only works on 2-channel sources). You didn't dream it. Folks thought they found an undocumented feature in one of H/K's receivers, the AVR-8000. Apparently you could turn on L7 processing when playing 5.1 sources (DTS or DD), a feature so far only reserved for Lex processors. AVR-8000 users were enjoying this feature for quite some time until they found out that it didn't really work how they thought.

On Lex processors, applying L7 to a 5.1 source causes the two surround channels to be logic steered over the 4 surround speakers. The front three channels aren't processed (three channels, three speakers, what's there to process?). On the AVR-8000, the discrete 5.1-channel source would first get folded down to two channels and then have L7 applied to it in order to create a 7-speaker presentation.

Basically, they weren't listening to a discrete multi-channel source any more but rather a de-matrixed 2-channel source. It's a testament to LOGIC7's surround processing capabilities that no one noticed for well over a year that they were listening to a 2-channel signal. That too, they only found out by accident when testing bass routing (i.e., never noticed by listening that they were not hearing discrete 5.1).

So in the end, there was no free lunch. ALL recivers from H/K can only apply L7 to 2-channel material.

Best,
Sanjay

You didn't dream it

I never know as I can have some dooseys!.

Thanks for the explanation, which jives with what I remember. It stuck out at the time, because some of those threads back then, gave me cause to smile. Unlike yourself; - who generously gives a thumbs up on comparing the HK version of L7 vs. the Lexicon’s. (and I know you study/love your SM’S) I’m sure you know how often ‘ego’ and (price paid) rears its ugly head in AV. [Some] Lexicon owners were highly offended at any HK owner matching HK L7 to Lexicons L7. It stuck out at the time, - because I was just starting to notice how terribly elitist some in this [hobby] can be. It was indeed the steering of the 2-channel applied L7 on the HK Vs the 5.1 channel discrete (vs Matrixed) implementation on the Lex.

Geesssss, and I came into forums about this subject to get [away] from 3-D real world egos! I was surprised (don’t know why, been around the block). To see the extreme passions which flare when you gather AV’ers together, even cybersapce is far to claustrophiphic and overpopulated with highly MOIF (my opinion is final) types.

Miss Lena, Indeed, too often. A room full of men discussing a manly hobby (audio/video) is not the place to go if you want to get away from egos. I'm surprised that you were surprised. Figgr'd all them hombres in yer household woulda learned you a thing'r two 'bout the male ego.

BTW, thanks for the kind words.

Best,
Sanjay

To get away from egos, you have to go to a Harley Davidson get together

Maybe, maybe not, Soundhound!

But then, you have to deal with libidos, especially when

.. H H
.. |. |
H-C-C-O-H
.. |. |
.. H H

is available in quantities.

I am all too familiar about ego and price paid for a piece of AV equipment. I sometimes find it terribly difficult to not boast about how little I paid for a recent purchase.

Paul

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the 1derful1

[This message has been edited by Paul J. Stiles (edited May 10, 2003).]

I was just kiddin' It seems like every dentist, accountant and lawyer in L.A. gets on their Harley on weekends and turn into badass biker dudes, hanging out at the Rock Store and drinking beer. Makes me want to puke......

To get away from egos, you have to go to a Harley Davidson get together
Knew you were kidding but there is after all a dB advantage with the Harley Hangouts. They still have the attitude, but when they get busy flicking that wrist back on the throttle the noise drowns all the BS out.

dentist, accountant and lawyer in L.A. gets on their Harley on weekends and turn into badass biker dudes, hanging out at the Rock Store and drinking beer. Makes me want to puke......
it has become the white-collar hangout for wanna be rebels. But they just look so dang cute when they break down and buy the leather (although not very dangerous as in the old days).

I sometimes find it terribly difficult to not boast about how little I paid for a recent purchase.
Very good line, I think we got in trouble around here recently ….being accused of that very thing!

A room full of men discussing a manly hobby (audio/video) is not the place to go if you want to get away from egos. I'm surprised that you were surprised. Figgr'd all them hombres in yer household woulda learned you a thing'r two 'bout the male ego.
As you might have noticed I have a soft spot for men and their conversations. (Lord help me). As they really are entirely too opinionated incorrigible and unpresentable to the rest of the world most of the time.
Unfortunately that comes with the ‘territory’ of being far more interested in planes/trains and cars than soap operas. In fact I’ve never MET a better soap opera - than that created by the particularities of a real live man!

Somehow just thought the booming voices and sandpaper faces would come across buffered on the web, quickly realized, - it's there in all its glory.

Speaking of stereotypes, you guys have not noticed I ramble, speak about non-esential (non-av topics), highjack threads, or take 3 times as long to say what Gonk can explain perfectly in one sentence.


Have you?

Ya godda be careful around those vicious accountant bikers!!!

Why, just the other day, one pointed his pen at me and yelled "audit!".

I was terrified for days.

Paul

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the 1derful1

p.s.

" ...Speaking of stereotypes, you guys have not noticed I ramble, speak about non-esential (non-av topics), highjack threads, or take 3 times as long to say what Gonk can explain perfectly in one sentence..."

Lena, but what you say is 5 times as entertaining, though.

[This message has been edited by Paul J. Stiles (edited May 10, 2003).]

Of course we've noticed. But those qualities are your charms Miss Lena, as much as Gonk's berevity and clarity are his.

Best,
Sanjay

I dunno... I have noticed a tendency toward particularly timely and entertaining posts like the nightclub act . I'm still chuckling...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Hey Avi,

How you doing, man?

Jeff (former coworker)