Assuming Outlaws are working on a next generation pre/pro, what improvements would you guys/gals expect it have over the 950?

I have been looking at the pre/pros in the over $2,000 price range. I do not see much out there that offers the features the Outlaw 950 does that justifies the more than double the price. So if there is a big brother to the 950, I was wondering what improvements or features it would have? Would these features outclass the Anthems, B & Ks, Krells, Aragons, Lexicons, Fosgates etc?

Improved bass management for multichannel?
Equilization/notch filtering?
Storable settings for each input?
Better remote?
Faceplate/volume knob options?
Logic 7 license from Lexicon?
Ultra II?
Balanced outputs?
Hydroplasmatic neural DACs?

Or could there be a "snob factor" involved? Or could it possible be appearance. Personally, I think the Aragon Stage One is the coolest looking unit out there.

How about:
- support the new digital connection to DVD-A and SACD.
- Digital AM/FM tuner

I think the biggest bang for the buck, without jacking up the cost could be:
1)Adjustable settings for each input.
2)Maybe a headphone jack.

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JT

- Automation port[s], preferably 100/TX.
- No remote option - a lot of folks just toss it anyway.
- Drop the tuner
- Digital input for DVD-A/SACD (which means it won't ship for a while)
- Either eliminate or fix the analog bass management stuff - as it is it's worse than nothing.
- More aux triggers, with extremely flexible on and off rules.

This topic has been moved to the "New Product Suggestions Forum"

Scott

More zones!

I have to ask: do people really use the multizone function on their recievers or pre/pros? In my limited experience with HT stuff I have never heard this as being an important feature for anybody. I would imagine it is important to the few who use it but it is worth making us who would buy the new pre/pro actually pay for it.

AND definitely no tuner. This falls under the same cost-benefit trade off as multi-zone. It seems that those who actually use a tuner really want a good one that would most likely be better served up as a separate component.

sorry if these issues have been discussed elsewhere but i figure the more voices the better on this.

I think we should ask for a "modular" approach to a pre-pro.

I would envision a pre-pro that oriented itself around a high resolution TFT (16x9 touch screen). Using an aesthetic bilateral set of hard buttons/knobs for the most predictable and used functions (80/20 rule). The touch screen can accomodate the remaining - as well as be updatable with firmware updates.

The hard buttons would be back iluminated and vary in intensity(and off!). Only the relevent hard buttons would illuminate based on the mode or source selected. With the new and cheap LED's, you can even provide a full range color option!!! Having source based buttons back illuminated would make access easier when the room lights are dim as well as provide a quick visual cue to relevent buttons based on the mode you are in.

Definitley spend money on a good Industrial design team!!! Or have optional faceplates - which would require some easy and universal mounting brackets.

Internally, equip the unit with modular card bays that can accomodate all the options in todays terms of features - then allow for possibly 2 or 3 additional bays for expansion. This will provide some headroom for the future.

Definitely add an OS (Palm or any embedded OS - maybe a realtime OS) and memory (upgradable) to the unit (card based as well) so that you can program it to interact with the TFT and cards used.

The programable nature and touch screen TFT would accomodate card updates, allow for neat features, and provide a level of customization limited only by the imagination.

For example, the base unit will come only with the OS/memory card and the TFT. Then, you order the cards you want - 1)Tuner card, 2) Surround DTS/DD card, 3) Music DVD-A / SACD card , 4)Ethernet client/server access to any storage array of mp4's, etc. When you plug the cards in, the OS will recognize the cards, its feature and then display any relevant features ... Then later, if you decide you want the new "digital AM/FM and RDS tuner card" or even a phono card you simply add or replace. Or, even better, niche oriented cards that can provide realtime calibration and corrections based on your speakers, room characteristics and listening preferences.

One can begin to realize the potential such an approach can have by the division of costs, flexibility, feature requests due to the incremental and market driven card designs... like DVI switching or native rate conversions (all video output at 720p or 1080i)... hmmmm

The TFT can display a DVD-A menu selection without using a monitor. Or provide feedback from the source...

The point with a modular card based system and a unit with an OS, is that now, you pay for a base system that can do anything you want today - and "only" the things you want.

But, more importantly, this approach will also allow someone to purchase the unit they want today - and tomorrow - by slowly adding the features that they decide they need.

Even better, one can take comfort in knowing that you can add the features you didn't realize you needed, or that were not around when you bought the system.

This would be a paradigm shift for shure... and potentially serve Outlaw very well marketwise.



[This message has been edited by trancethereal (edited February 21, 2003).]

Hmm, no thanks... I really don't want an LCD or other display in my equipment rack. I'd much rather use my TV for displaying and have a minimalist 2-line character display on the front of the unit, at most. Touch screens belong on the optional remote, not on the unit face where they just clutter the rack and never get used. Also, no embedded PalmOS; I don't want this thing crashing as much as my computer does. And card bays almost always add more cost than worth.

If you want more specialization and expandability, I'd rather see it done by chaining devices together, perhaps with fire wire. Need more analog inputs? Buy an eight-channel ADC and use it as for stereo pairs. Want balanced outputs? Get a six channel balanced DAC. Want 7.1 with stereo subs? Buy a second DAC. The pre/pro becomes a processor, and just takes digital data from an input side and sends it to the output side. Give it enough extra MIPS and a flashable ROM for future decoding formats.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

I think you miss the point on the TFT (touch screen) -

Many would use it for DVD-A (audio) so that they do not have to turn on their monitor just to navigate the disk... this is just one reason for a TFT - which may explain their growing popularity.

But the ability to use it to accomodate future "virtual" buttons is another benefit. It can always be turned off - and having such a multi-function display would actually reduce clutter - not add to it.

Having it on an optional remote would be great - but then that would require a two-way communicative wireless signal... while a cool idea, the cost/performance ratio may fall outside an acceptable range. I find myself scratching my heading thinking "if it is good to have it on a remote, why wouldn't it be equally or preferred to have it on the unit itself - I would hate to either loose the remote or have it break..."

Palm OS is relatively stable - embeded linux can be even more stable since you will only load what is necessary. There are a number of other embeded OS that have a proven track record unlike your computer. I think you may be confusing your Win98 (my assumption) performance and reliabity with what would be used or recommended.

While I can appreciate the "percieved" simplicity in daisy-chaining devices to achieve specialization... how does such an approach "reduce clutter", "cost", or "complexity"? Surely the pre-pro you envision for such an approach must be designed to handled all the inputs and outputs of all these devices - forcing you to build in a lot of "extras" like inputs and outputs to accomodate a future need (and then hope that you guessed right!). I can't imagine the wiring mess...

Being able to simply swap out an outdated cardslot component with an updated replacement would itself contain any necessary connections, funtionality, and the unexpected while being much cheaper since you are not buying the entire box (pre-pro) again... just the raw module. The controls, external buttons, power, and remote would have been part of your original purchase. The OS would be able to reconfigure the TFT to then provide any new "virtual" buttons and options.

Again - the beauty of a cardslot based system would mean that both of us could use the same base unit - but if I was happy with 5.1 and you wanted 7.2 - the division and economies of scale work for both of us - the base pre-pro is cheaper - you get the ability to upgrade and I get the ability to purchase at a level that fits my needs.

And having enough "MIPS" seems eerily like a metric for measuring processing power of a processor when working with an OS... and to update a "ROM" seems equally like the same benefit afforded a good OS.