with marantz and pioneer (oh yeah and apex) having them in the market and onkyo and yamaha announcing others, is Outlaw going to be ready to enter the market?

I know that they were waiting for format issues to be resolved, but if companies are now starting to throw their hats into the ring?

Rich

Here's my wish list:

complete bass management
no chroma bug
zoom mode
10 - 15 lbs or more (not a cheap plastic thing)
$750 or so (in Outlaw pricing, that should be equivalent to maybe $1000 to $1500 for a normal retail price)
ability to turn off video (processing) circuits when listening to tunes
separately shielded power supplies for internal analog & digital components/circuits

I personally don't care (at the moment) one way or the other if there's a digital interface. (Not a deal breaker.)

So what ARE the universal players?

The Apex 7701 was a total FLOP - didn't work, recalled, exchanged, etc. Supposedly there is to be a 7702 but I believe they have burned off their market for anything costing more than USD59 - they basically are the Dixie Cup of the DVD market.

IMO, Apex is garbage.

Pioneer has 2 current ones, the DV-45a (I have one) and the 47ai. Marantz also has one based on the older Pioneer DV-47a, the 8300.

Onkyo and Integra just announced universal players. Yamaha is supposed to have one out by Christmas.

And rumored is a uni-player from Denon early next year.

Also Teac announced one was well.

TI also announced a digital connection for sacd/dvd-a.

I think, as it stands right now the Yamaha is the closest thing to what you want. It has DCDI and a list of $1000.

Rich

Every review I've read for these universal players give high marks for the DVD-Audio/PCM portion of the player and rather luke warm to poor comments about the SACD/DSD side of things.

I think a true universal player will have to have completely different decoder and DAC sections designed specifically for each format that do them both justice.

Dan

It's not as simple as that for a lot of reasons.

1) Most of the reviews I read on the 47a gave it good marks for everything. The Perfect Vision was the notable exception. (HTM, S&V, SGHT, and there was some web reviews I dug up too. Lee Scoggins had a thread on HTF concerning this.)

2) The 47A has a Sony chip in it for SACD/DSD decoding. That's why I thought it was ironic that this player got picked on for its SACD performance.

Kevin,

Perfect wish list. I know most people wouldn't care, but let me add.... able to downmix a phantom center in SACD and DVD-A mode. Don't make be beg for that one Outlaws!

As I mentioned a long time ago here, and Kevin recently mentioned. Outlaw doesn't need to wait for a digital out solution.

If the player's great then you could could do little harm running it into a multichan pre-amp.

No need to wait for a newer Outlaw pre/pro just to make redundant decoding in an Outlaw player and a new pre/pro.

The latest issue of Sound&Vision reviews the DV-45A (They reviewed the 47A in May). They seem to like it alot (Surprise? Well, they did like the 1050 and the ICBM). Apparently the only thing they didn't like was its "plain styling".
However, at this point $700 is a little too rich for me, and I know this may sound crass, but I really like a five-disc carousel (the DV-45A is a one-disc drawer). As long as I can remember which disc is in what position.
The WAF also enters into the equation, along with a question.
Is SACD really that good?
I have heard it, but only briefly, and I didn't hear an appreciable diference. Maybe the recording wasn't the best it could have been.
I have never heard DVD-Audio, so the same question stands as for SACD.

Which issue of Sound and Vision? I don't seem to be able to find it on their website, and my local newstand has the Nov. issue...not in there either. Is it in Dec issue? Just curious to read the review, I've got a 45a and couldn't be happier, paid $420 locally.

It's in the December 2002 with Spidey on the cover, page 46.
Great article about the Spiderman movie, too. The dvd sounds like it is absolutely spectacular.
By the way, where did you get your 45A? Please let me know about the performance from your persepctive.
$420 sounds possibly do-able, maybe. WAF again, y'know ('Nuff said).

WOO HOO. A Gunslinger at last!! I hope I can live up to the awsome responsibility.




[This message has been edited by CBWills (edited November 19, 2002).]

I think it's fabulous, but my experience is fairly limited, I've had a 5 year old JVC, and most recently a Panasonic RP56. The Pioneer beats the Panasonic in every way, in my opinion of course. CD sound really good to me, but I've never had a 'high' end CD player. DVD-A and SACD are absolutely the best sound reproduction I've ever heard. I think the production/engineering/mastering matter much more than whether it's DVD-A or SACD, they both are REALLY good. I'm in California, I bought the Pioneer from my local Tweeter and they matched $420 from a print out of http://www.soundpros.com. I just checked and it looks like the price has gone up to $435. Still a great deal in my book.

I just did a search for DV-45A on Yahoo and found several places selling it for under $400:

$394

$399

$395

$383

$389

Sayer

Thanks for the info. I may take the plunge this Xmas. All depends on the WAF.

WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor?

Yep thats it. Or in my case:

Way gone, Audio bewitched Female.

It could also mean Wife's Aneurism Factor. Hmm...