I posted this way back in Jan. I think, but I'll do it again 'cuz it's been a while.

Digital amps from Bel Canto, PS Audio, Spectron, Tact, and AV Reality, and others are being called revolutionary in their incredible detail, linearity, and control compared to tube and solid state designs. ALL tube and s.s. designs!

The two 'ones to beat' as of now look to be the PS Audio's 'HCA-2', and AV Reality's 'eAR' line-up.

They should be even cheaper to make than even the very low prices that these companies are selling them for, and Outlaw could really shine with a 7 channel amp that's the same size as thier 950, but more powerful and higher quality sound yet close in price!!
And it wouldn't be a 90 pound space heater either!

AV Reality's the first to use B&O's patented 'ICEpower' chipset.
It looks like it's an incredible design that Outlaw could use themselves to be at the forefront of the coming digital amp revolution.

It's only a matter of a few years before the news is widespread that digital amps are able to be cheaper, far more efficient (~90% -smaller power supplies, cool running), and most importantly -of higher sound quality than even some of the best tube and s.s. amps out now.

It started in about '98 when Tact Audio came out with an audiophile digital amp to rave reviews called by many to be one of the very best amps in the world.

Now each new digital amp that comes out from various companies seems to be called better than all the previous ones.

And who thinks their digital chip technology is going to slow down any time soon?

Make the 755 and 770 your LAST analog amps guys!!

I agree, I quizzed about this when I first came into Outlaw, one of the first separates I ran into when I started looking around was the TACT amp.

I truly believe this is the next generation across the board amp technology, to the extent in the next x? yrs you will see it filter even into HTIB.

I know you guys that with the upgrade bug are always looking for a new WAF factor spin. It should help a lot, when your talking her into that latest purchase.
“Look honey - its Smaller”…….., (Don’t know if she’ll care as much about the lighter, cooler) …but I do!

I am soon to be an official Outlaw, and I hope they research this trend extensively. From what I read, maybe it’s the new engineering factor that’s keeping the prices up now, which hopefully will filter down quickly, because it appears they should be very cost efficient to manufacture.

I also would like to see the Outlaws work on a digital amp. From everything I have read it should be a big leap forward for amplifiers. After the 950 sounding so great I can think of about 1000 things I want the outlaws to make

I think we should all be using powered towers on all four corners with optical digital inputs and built-in digital amps. No DACs in your pre/pro (I guess it isn't really a preamp anymore, is it?) and a clean uncompressed signal going out to the speakers. Suddenly quality of speaker wire, interconnects, etc. doesn't matter anymore as you've finally reduced the analog stage to about 4" of cable between the amp and the cones.

edit: grammatical errors.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

[This message has been edited by Matthew Hill (edited May 09, 2002).]

Yeah Matthew,

That'd be part of the 'next wave' I think though. Meridian has self powered speakers already that use digital inputs, but they don't have digital amps. They could though if they wanted to.

With built in speaker amps you'll have the disadvantage of having to buy a speaker and amp at the same time, and also not being able hear diff. amps connected to the same speakers.

I think seperates will still be the way to go for a long. long time.

There's nothing wrong w/ analog connections. In the case of DD/DTS/DVD-A/SACD, it's just a lot messier, and more costly to run analog, and a more eff. process to plug all your signals into one unit w/ one cable, and do stuff like bass mang. there.

There's no real world loss w/ analog cables though. And if you debate there is, I'm sure it would make a thousand times bigger diff. what player vs. what processor output and decoded the digital and analog connections you were comparing.

Anyway, with built in digital amps (w/ digital input) you'd have to run costly digital cables all around your room, so you wouldn't get any less cable clutter by doing that.

With analog inputs, you could have monoblocks (digital or analog) by each speaker and costly low level analog cables connecting them all. You can do that now, but more people like it better having all the amps in one or a couple of boxes by their other equip. and sending power out on higher level speaker wire -which works great, and isn't problem IMO.

The thing about digital amps is that they still don't all sound the same (it's not just digital is digital) so they'll still be competing brands, and getting rid of all analog connections, while sounds better in theory, is probably not in itself any benefit to improved sound quality.

We'll see the benefit digital amps with them all being better sounding than most tube or solid state amps, and cheaper, smaller, cooler running, etc...

My digital Audiosource AMP 7 looks pretty messy inside and has a lot of un-needed anti-audiophile features (watt meters, auto on, dual gain knobs, a/b speaker inputs and switches), but uses the same Tripath amp chip technology as the $2,500 Bel Canto eVo which has gotten rave reviews.

The inside of that amp is almost 1/2 empty w/ the tightest, shortest, cleanest connections I've even seem in an amp! I have little doubt that my amp does NOT sound the same or as good.

My amp is cool running, small, and cheap though, and sounds at least 'pretty good'. World Class sound? No way.
Like CD's they can sound incredible when recorded well. Lots don't. The potential's there though.

The new PS Audio HCA-2 has been called by one of the PS A's beta reviewers who owns the Bel Canto eVo as being far, far better than it. And called pretty much 'world class sounding' by all the beta testers.
Both the Bel Canto and PS Audio are digital stereo amps of ~the same amount of power.

I hope Outlaw doesn't mind me mentioning other company's amps. I did tell them to look into digtial amps months ago -heh, and their 7 chan amp does cost less than either of these slightly lower powered stereo amps. But is anyone calling the Outlaw amps 'world class sound'?
No. Great sounding and great value, but not 'best of the best' by anyone.

Most digital amps out now (other than Tact) use an analog input. Most of these amps have been called better sounding than the pure digital Tact though. Just being 'digital' or 'digital only' isn't enough to create some kind of 'perfect sound', but it's the best direction to try to get there though.

A digital amp could eventually (and may already be able to) do what a $40K Mark Levinson amp can do, but an analog M-L amp can't ever do what a digital amp can.

I'd like to see Outlaw replace thier analog amps (when they feel the time is right) w/ digital multichannel models that have analog inputs and if possible a digital input probably through firewire (output from thier future pre/pro).

The main things I have against analog equipment is (a) cost and (b) convenience. Yes, you can make analog sound very, very good, but it's going to cost more. You can send 1s and 0s across cheap UTP cabling with NO loss in quality whatsoever... you can make unlimited recordings with no generational loss, etc. Also, if SACD and DVD/a would use digital interconnects, your pre/pro would be able to perform bass management, time alignment, equalization, etc. without expensive analog circuitry. Plus there'd be fewer wires.

I'm not anti-analog... but as someone said in one of the other fora, there's a reason analog engineers get paid more than digital engineers.

I think you're getting a little too far away from what I was saying. I'm talking about analog inputs vs. digital inputs on digital amps.

We both agree digital in would be preferable, but waiting on fully digital chain of ins/outs will be a long wait. Firewire's been around for years and could handle this chain, but it's just not being implemented... and firewire cables cost a lot of money IMO.
Digital inputs on a digital amp won't in itself mean better sound quality from the amp, and if fact the analog input section of these digital amps makes a huge effect on the sound quality (for the better) -much moreso than the clean, linear, efficient digital output section.

Check out PS Audio's info about their new digital amp the HCA-2, and the beta tester reviews. They describe how the analog input section is the 'sound quality' section of the amp.

Hate to mention it on Outlaw's forum, but when discussing one company's products, other products are gonna get mentioned now and then, and like I said, I'm suggesting Outlaw get into this coming amp revolution.

azryan -- I see no harm in mentioning other products here. The regulars around here have traditionally tried to be open about stuff like that. And I agree that the digital amps like the PSA HCA-2 sound very interesting. Keep the info coming...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

www.audioasylum.com (PS Power Forum section) for the latest customer word.

I've been working on prodding new HCA-2 owners for reviews/impressions there. Just a few posted so far, and haven't had it very long. They says it gets better everyday as it burns in more and more.

Seems like they're backing up the beta tester's rave reviews though.

Hi.

Has the train left the station?

OK.
I think these guys manufacture OEM, or at least provide means to license production:

http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/index.html

Smart little Lena: Congrats with becoming an Outlaw!
Have seen your footsteps on several threads here and I really like your sense of humour.
Keep it up!

Best wishes.
\\Anders