Matthew,

"Re-reading his posts, I don't see anything in there that seems troll-like. As to the truth of what he says? Well, I'm not in the know about these things so I can't judge that."

Exactly my point. You don't understand he's flat out lying therefore you don't see a troll in action.

Re-read my last post. I addressed exactly this type of comment (before you made it -rightly assuming someone like you would make it) as being just the reason I've gotten so angry.

BTW, I've been the one posting this technology info and having the information twisted by him.
No one's been damaging the things you've been trying to tell people here, because you haven't been saying anything. Easy to sit back and judge from the sidelines and not care about the details (which you admit you don't know) before you decided who 'looks' right.

But hey if people are happier to be lied to as long as everyone plays nice then I'm the bad guy.

"But in my mind, you've allowed him to push you across that imaginary line of civility, and in doing so, you've handed the argument to him."

It's that kind of backwards logic that's gotten this country into a lot of trouble.

A liar wins an agrument because you don't understand that he's a lying to you.
See most of our nations leaders (from both parties) who are in the hands of big business for a good example of this mentality in action.

The guy who's been telling you about this cool technology loses in your mind because while correcting (repeatedly over many many months here!) also told the liar off for lying in the first place.

Sorry, but you guys lose. And I really mean that. I'm very sorry.
I already know about the cool stuff I try to post info about here.

I have no need to post here when I know I'll just have to do never ending battle with someone who'll twist everything I say or misrepresent any bad data he reads somewhere.

AZ

“Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”

I am about to slit yours. And since actions begun in anger often end in shame. I will probably end by making as big an ass of myself as you are delighted to display yourself being on your every 10th post. Outlaw may ban me (and I acknowledge their every right and sovereign authority to do so) as I am about to unwisely choose to make a public announcement of my solely personal opinions regarding your very public behavior.

An educated mind can entertain thoughts and exchange ideas calmly and rationally without ever once surrendering a firm position that stands on the opposite side of the argument.

I suspect everyone who indulges in force intimidation degradation humiliation and vexing boorish tiresome behavior when attempting to make a point. Therefore any knowledge, expertise, tips, informative advice, opinion upon any topic on which I might desire enlightenment will never appear as a reliable or trustworthy regardless of the validity of the core information when it comes cloaked in these terms. . As your methodology of relaying that information makes you appear crude, violent, incoherent, absurd, and vulgar if Outlaw is pleased in their wisdom to let this little vendetta play out upon its own hot air, I shall be pleased to skip all posts with your tag, until I have forgiven you.
.
I have lost patience with attempting to read I between the lines of your posts which far too often currently and at repeated moments in the past have displayed a lack of self-control on your part when you include personal attacks on personal possession’s of fellow forum members and descriptive terminology including (but not limited to) phrases such as: twisted, Blind, Flat out wrong, lying, troll, screwed up, shut up, your high, moron, fool, you talk crap, you know nothing, sick of you, moronic, idiot, stupidity from you, utterly wrong………….I stop and take a breath.

AZ if I am not plain enough what I am trying to relay to you is the fact that if you had the wisdom of the ages wrapped up in your typing finger, I can no longer see any but the actions of a fool who halos whatever knowledge he might be in possession of in impenetrable dirt.

Charlie you have my personal high regard for your long-suffering and seemingly unending control of your emotions in the face of repeated personal attacks. I do not tolerate injustice when I perceive something to be so which has currently caused a loss of the control of my own behavior for this moment. I apologize to the forum as a whole.

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
Perhaps we could rename this thread to "Venting Christmas Stress"...

We all need to sit down together and drink som egg nog and throw digital amps at eachother till someone gets their head knocked around. Then it wont matter about specs As long as its heavy, everything is fine!

------------------
Play it LoUd!!

Maybe if we all have enough "virtual margaritas", this whole debate will disappear - then again with enough margaritas, _everything_ disappears

It's NO excuse. But I'll say it anyway and espcialy to Azryan. As I tiptoe back into the forum this morning thinking, "did I say that?". I was back in the courts from 9 to 3 pm the day before that post for the second time in 7 days. Having to be sworn in and testifing again about 'men behaving badly' in the neverending divorce.

I plain 'went off'.
Venting Christmas Stress indeed, and a most inapproiate time of year to pick.

I feel a little guilty also, for I did start the "calling to task" of Azryan. But at the time I felt strong enough about it to spaek out, not sorry about that. Just because I like HTF doesn't mean I want this forum to emulate it!


------------------
m-mmeyer
GO TWINS
My DVD's

Lena,

I have nothing against you and I can handle what you said to me. I have no desire to, nor do I think it right to insult you in any way.
I hope you know I don't just jump on people left and right here or anywhere.

I've never been booted off of any forum (though that may change now -I can't say).
And even when my big mouth goes too far or gets things messy I stick around and try to work it out or at least explain what I meant -like I hope I did with Soundhound.

I'm glad you had the guts to speak up. As I'm glad others have too. Even though it's against me. The guts to speak your mind is far more important to this country's attitude than my own feelings which are meaningless.

Knowing what you're talking about is also important too though, and in this case most don't seem to understand the lies that got me so angry. They only understand 'moron' is a bad word to call someone.

I know full well I took the low road against charlie, but as I said... I just plain 'gave up' trying to smile and correct him over and over, and his last post which was total lies was the 'low road' first IMO.

Some may say the words I said are never justified (and I understood that before I posted them), but I did back up every insult with facts. They're all there. Out in the open. No editing.

I notice not one person seems to care if I'm right or wrong as if that's too difficult to think about and name calling in it's childish simplisity is easy enough to understand and call 'bad'.

Someone trying to damage every post I write -going so far as to flat out lie it seems is fine.
Me getting mad at that person is not?

All the 'bad' things you quoted me as saying Lena were from 'one' post and they were said within detailed remarks backing up the anger. It was he who made the post just before that was made up of total lies.

Some (maybe most?) think we should just smile at a liar knowing we're not lying ourselves -so we're ok.
But those people let the lies continue when they could do something.

This is not just the meaningless issue here over a digital amp Outlaw will probably never build, but about how we all think in general in our daily lives.

Some think the liar needs to be put in their place and are willing to take the risk to do so knowing full well the 'boat rocker' is almost always considered at fault -even when the boat rocker turns out to be right.

Some consider war and the bombing of innocent civilians to weed out terorists wrong.
Some say 'We did what we had to do, and we're really sorry if we killed any body that we didn't mean to kill'.

It's all in how you look at it.

The worst thing though is to NOT look. To not think. To ignore the details. Or to judge without knowing the details.

People judge things all the time with so little information. How many people have made personal judgements on court cases that they've heard about on the news?

Guilty or not guilty while not actually having seen ANY of the actual court case, just the snippets we're told on TV. Happens all the time.

Above all do not stop 'thinking' and questioning the things that happen around you. We're too often sheep being led by whoever lies the nicest. From this forum (apparently) to our nations leaders (assuming most here are from the U.S.)

Feel free to question why I said what I said though I answered these questions myself because I felt it was only fair that I back up what I say.
How many judge me as wrong in my insults yet don't have any idea if I'm right about the lies I exposed?

azryan:

I can see where you are coming from, and when considered on a global context, you are absolutely right. The human race is not exactly "ready for prime time" when it comes to getting beyond biases, and stating things as they really are. Those kinds of bias-influenced statements are lies, pure and simple.

Then there are opinions. Again you are right that far too many opinions are based on incomplete understanding of the underlying issues involved. Then, there are some opinions that are based on solid knowledge of the issues. Those are valid, "agree to disagree" types of disagreements.

For instance, I have very little knowledge beyond what I've read on the issue of class "D" amps. I followed the Tact amplifier story which I first saw when I was in Europe several years ago. The idea seems intriguing, especially if the signal chain is kept all-digital up to and including the power amp. Personally, I am not ready to chuck linear amp technology, and especially tube amp technology (given my horn speakers, because I need "rich" class "A" and "A/B" output stages) as long as we are producing sound by attaching coils of wire to paper (or whatever material) cones and wiggling them in a magnetic field in order to produce sound. I think we are in need of a new, basic process to reproduce sound that does not involve wiggling something (electrostatic speaker, ribbon speaker, dynamic speaker, planar speaker, etc) in the air to produce sound waves. That is just Sooo 1922 There are technologies out there that produce sound by means of plasma that have been around for decades, but they are not practical at the moment. I wish I could invent a new way to produce sound - I could be rich If ever there is such a sound reproducer developed, power amplifiers as such will become a moot point, decending into the tar pit of dead technologies.

My pet peeve is the snake-oil-clap-trap that is dispensed by the marketing departments of some audio and video equipment manufacturers regarding their 'technologies". Some of this is clearly bull****, and I've said so more times than I care to think of. It serves nothing more than to mislead consumers, many of whom believe this stuff. Then there are some magazines that suck this mis-information up, and judge such things as audio performance as if they were discerning the difference between exotic and rare wines. Forgive my rant.

In my opinion, and with the caviat that I do not personally know Charlie, I find it hard to believe that he would waste your's and everybody's time by intentionally lying about amplifiers, or anything for that matter. There are obviously reasons for his stance on the issues in this thread, but I doubt that intentionally lying is one of them.

Anyway, you obviously have a great amp that works very well in your system, and I'm certain that that is no lie. I'm keeping my eye on all the various technologies that develop, and adopting the ones that look like they can enhance my enjoyment of music and movies.

Have a Merry Christmas!

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited December 20, 2002).]

Azryan –
Your posts are patronizing and it offends me that you have the gall to make some weak analogy justifying your rudeness with the bombing of innocent civilians. There are serious tragedies in this world that shatter the lives of the victims and their loved ones and how dare you diminish their pain and suffering by including that in your arguments. Please don’t try and pretend to be nobly concerned about ‘protecting us from lies’, carry on (or don’t carry on) an argument if you wish but don’t worry about us lurkers. We have never asked you to speak for us or protect us. Speaking for myself, I enjoy most discussions here, for I am always learning. There are some great audio minds that post on this forum, but it’s the internet and shame on me if I believe everything someone else types.

That said, and although it seems like a waste of time to point things out to you I will relay a portion of my take on this current argument:

Charlie: "Putting it simply, the output filter that all class D audio amps must have will typically cause them to have frequency response problems on difficult loads."

Azryan: “Putting it simply... you're just flat out wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.
This amp is exactly the opposite of what you describe. In addition to you having no idea about what class D amps can and can't do, the ICEpower module works in a totally diff. way than all other class D amps, and the module itself does NOT equal the output result of the amp, and can not be used to 'guess' the actual amp's performance.
The test results of the actual amp in the review I mentioned CAN.
Read the review or shut up, because you are just a flat out lying Troll now.”

High Fidelity Review: "We have tested the amplifier with a number of loudspeakers, and the amplifier is not particularly influenced by the loudspeaker it is connected to. This is rather diff. from other switch mode class D amplifiers where the amplifiers have always played differently with a number of diff. loudspeakers. The eARTwo seems to be quite consistent in its way of playing."

Now I’m just an audio novice but it seems to me the magazine supports Charlie’s point about Class D amplifiers, but determines that the eARTwo is an exception to the rule. It hardly makes him a flat out lying Troll, just not a know everything Wizard or eternal Elf. Perhaps it makes him an ordinary human, subject to having opinions based on facts and experience but being able to modify his opinions when new facts and experiences arise. We all know you paid a lot of money for your amplifier and want everyone to acknowledge your fine choice – perhaps if you want Charlie to change his opinion on Class D amplifiers that badly you could send him yours for a few days so he could hear (or measure) this Class D amps performance, applaud your choice and put an end to this thread.