The electronics on the Sammys have service menu settings to allow image flipping, so in theory you could buy an RPTV and some lenses....

Kinda off and kinda on topic here. I just read where LG.Philips LCD has unveiled a 42" LCD display. You read that right, 42" LCD... not plasma. If this trend continues, I think the majority of home users would migrate to large panel LCD's in lieu of projectors. This thing boasts a viewing angle greater than 175 degrees and is only about two inches thick! You can read the press release here .

Projectors will still be the order of the day for displays over about five or six feet, but I think most users would find a large screen LCD a better fit. Shorter cable runs, quieter, and no bulbs to burn out. Of course, still just my opinion. What do you guys think?

The DLP stuff has interesting advantages in theory and the optical engines are getting thin - one 65" DLP RPTV is 16" deep IIRC.

I like LCD, but the ones I've seen just don't look like film, whereas even with the 1st generation problems the older DLP I saw looked very film-like.

I'm taking a wait and see - my IDTV looks good on std def and there's not much HD content yet anyway. I figure content and mature technology might just converge this time....

"The Dog"
You are not paying attention. That's where the extra money goes - adver., promos, overhead, burden (building - marketing, etc). I don't want to pay that in my biz, which is what I thought was the Outlaw's biz model. BTW - material cost for every thing you buy is about 10% of retail - or less. This applies to your car, radio, TV, BFast cereal, etc. The web biz model is suppose to get rid of at least 50% of the bloat. The Outlaw's biz model doen't work if they can't get the material built without all the bloat added on (as if they were not on the web biz model). Apparently they must buy from the assembly guy (manuf. is costly), who buys from TI, and the assembly guy is not going to let them undercut him if he is also in the retail biz. That's apparently the problem.

[This message has been edited by JDB001 (edited October 24, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by JDB001 (edited October 24, 2002).]

The Samsung HLM507W - 50-inch Tantus HDTV is selling (soon) for $3,249.00 + $100 shipping.

It has the TI HD-2 device and a scaling set from Farouja (IIRC), so it's pretty indicative of what could be done.

http://www.samsungelectronics.com/tv/product_news/tv_admin_1034726225500_101010.html

JDB:

As they used to say in the commercials: STOP, YOU'RE BOTH RIGHT!

Yes, you are correct that the Outlaw's model should, to a great (but NOT total) extent eliminate the marketing costs we both outlined, and it does eliminate margin layers from reps, dealers, etc.

On the other hand (opps -- other PAW) I would guess that the Outlaws don't have the volume that someone like a Samsung does with a large consumer business, or folks that can piggyback a consumer product on the volume for chips and key components of a biz/"road Warrrior" projection business. WHere that puts them is, to some extent, where you project: they are forced to buy from an assembler, putting back in his mark-up to replace the take-out from a web-based sales model. OR, they can build-it themselves or on an ODM basis, but there they pay a cost penalty for the lower margins on key components.

But if you build it yourself or on a custom basis, the problem with video projectors is that there are a few high-value components where colume is key. If you ain't got it, you're gonna pay through the nose for DLP chips, optics (lens/color wheel/pipe, etc), lamp assembly, power supply, high-value chips (scalars, etc.)

Finally, there is the problem that margins for video are BRUTAL and not as comfortable in most cases as they are with audio.

It ain't easy. One can only imagine what the Outlaws are thinking, but presumably they will either find a way around all of this or decide to continue to sit it out rather than bleed out the dollars.

Hey, but what do I know, I'm only a dog!

ARF ARF says Iggy!

I give up. No DLP for the masses in the forseeable future. We will just have to see how the new LCD projectors (Sony, Panasonic, Epson) just now being released and targeted at the HT market do over the next few weeks. Maybe they will take enough of the market from "the InFocus DLP" crowd to make an impact on price. Spec-wise these new PJs will have the capability since they are not simply "juiced up" data projectors, but rather new designs targeted at the HT market. With consumer street prices in the $1500 - $3500 range, their presence should be felt.

With all this talk of DLP prjectors, has anyone checked out the piano HE 3100, or HE 3200? They both ring in at under 5K, with the 3100 under 3K.

Any one taken the plunge and put one in their HT yet?

Jason

The Plus projectors are not HD, just EDTV. The hope is for a native HD DLP (1280x720) projector for less than $4K.
PS: The Plus price direct for the HE3200 should be about $2500.



[This message has been edited by JDB001 (edited October 28, 2002).]

JDB001,

As the instigator of the digital amp threads, I have to say you're just flat out wrong. As I've already written here already...

The eARTWo digital amp sounded FAR better than the other digital amp I already had, and two other solid state amps I owned (and still own).
There are lots of these same remarks and direct comparrisons to lots of great amps on the HDforum. Including it being called better than $30K Mark Levinson Monoblocks, the $10K TacT Millenium, Krell, Jeff Rowland, etc..

If you think all these amps sound just like Outlaw's or Rotel's you're wrong.
And man I WISH it were true!!
I wish my $200 Axiom bookshelf speakers in my bedroom sounded like my Newform Research 45" ribbons, but they just don't.

If you haven't heard them... don't claim I'm wrong.

I'm not made of money and it really kinda hurt to part w/ what the eARTWo cost me, but the diff. was clear and obvious, as the diff amps were the only variable in the mix.

If not I'd have just kept using the $350 solid state amp I own right???
I had no interest in spending lots of money. I didn't buy it to impress you or anything.

That was what the first digital amp was supose to be -all the benefits of digital amps, but pretty low price). It just wasn't nearly as realistic as the eARTwo. It was really obvious how dry and processed the first amp was compared to the eARTwo. Before the eARTwo, I really liked the other amp too!
I just read that the eARTwo was SOOO great, so I thought, it can't hurt to hear for myself if this is all just silly audio voodoo kinda talk (like you seem to be acting like here).

Even my wife (who's not into audio like I am) totally agreed with what I heard, and I told her if she didn't hear a BIG diff that I'd send the eARTwo right back. And I would have. It cost too much to have it only be "a little better", or "hard to tell but I think it's probably better?" Anything like that and it woulda got shipped right back.

She agreed that the diff. was BIG.

It would've cost me ~$30 to send it back if I didn't want it, and get full moneyback refund. Designer Peter Thomson's great to deal with and emailed me answering all the questions I asked in great detail. Some too much detail that was over my head engineer-wise -since I ain't one.

You should try it before you make opinions about what you haven't tried. The eAR250 is cheaper.

My Newform Research are pretty eff. speakers too (~91db) so NONE of the amps come close to clipping ever.

And I'll agree that they all list their specs as showing basically zero distortion, but clearly these specs aren't as accurate as you'd like to believe. What's the spec for the S/N ratio of the 950 say?

As to DLP FP's... As Iggy stated... your numbers are off.

If they were right, obviously Outlaw would be making exactly what we'd all like them to make at the price you claim they can make it.
They said themselves a looong time ago that they wanted to make a FP, so it's not like they just don't want to anymore.

Infocus, Plus, NEC just make and sell them about as cheaply as possible.

Maybe Outlaw could go a little lower somehow in making only one specific Outlaw model, but not cheaply enough to keep it from being a BIG risk for them.

Within 6 months the 'big boys' would be able to match Outlaw's price for sure, and 6 months later beat it or offer better performance for the same cost. They already do this without Outlaw trying to compete with them.

New projectors come out VERY fast from the 'big boys'.

That fast turnover in product is certainly NOT what Outlaw is looking to compete with.
Again... something I stated a long time ago here.

Look at how they still haven't updated the 1050. It's still great of course, but there's cheaper more fully featured Recs. that have been called as good sounding or better.