How about the newest black level enhanced true HDTV resolution (720p-- hopefully full 1080p if available in the near future), full 1.78:1 widescreen panel DMD chips by Texas Instruments?

The best Faroudja/Sage de-interlacer and scaler chips so that you get the smoothest upscaling or downscaling to the panel's native resolution. That has been a big weakness in most digital projectors: a poor internal scaler, interpolator, and de-interlacer stage.

Accept 480p and other already progressive scan scaled & processed signals.

Accept native 720p and 1080i signals-- even 1080p.

RGB inputs that have access to the full resolution of the chip for use with a Home Theater PC. Gold plated component, S-Video, and composite inputs.

No pixel cropping and allow for a setting of zero overscan.

DVI and FireWire digital video inputs compatible with the latest copy protection signals. Might as well be prepared for the worst.

Full user adjustable controls.

2.35:1 anamorphic scaling on native 1.78:1 ratio material (and fully adjustable vertical picture shifting compatibility for those pesky subtitles that fall into the lower letterbox bar) for all signal inputs (including HDTV) so that an outboard 1.78:1 anamorphic lens (like the ISCO II which stretches the image back out) could be used in conjunction with the projector. This would allow for a constant height, variable width 2.40:1 front projection screen, and allow the full brightness of the DMD chip to be used for 2.35:1 and wider movies with proper geometric proportions. Memory settings for focus, picture shift, pincushion, barrel distortion, keystoning, etc. for this particular feature.

Digital pincushion, barrel distortion correction (helpful with outboard anamorphic lenses), and keystoning corrections for all settings.

Electronic, power focusing and zooming.

Wireless remote.

Video adjustment setting memory for each video input.

Vertical and horizontal picture shifting adjustments in case outside video source syncing doesn't center the picture correctly.

Detachable lens assemblies for aftermarket upgrades or different lens throw needs. However, the stock lens and assembly should be of the highest quality.

The best, efficient lamp house and long lasting bulb available. Sell replacement bulbs at a cut rate price and you'll have people flocking to you.

Extreme quality control. Dust blobs, lint, etc. have been problems with most digital projectors. Have a no dead or stuck pixel policy.

High quality air filtration system and super quiet fan.

No light leakage.

If you can do it for a retail price between $5,000 - $7,000, that would really put a hurt on other manufacturers and help us home theater enthusiasts out who want to move up to a super deluxe front projection system.

Dan



[This message has been edited by Dan Hitchman (edited September 02, 2001).]

What we need is the new SIM2 HT300 projector for reasonable money, but loose the goofy case and cost. Focus on performance, small, and no special frills. Just deliver raw HD on the screen, 4X color wheel, hi-performance. video conversion, "touch-up" remote for focus (mainly manual), reasonable life bulb, 3 video inputs (component, S, composite), NO audio in projector, NO PC input, anamorphic options extra cost at later date. Initial cost less than $4K.

As many others have stated, 10K is just too much for most people.
I think Outlaw's amp, receiver, and other proposed 'new' products are all along the lines of creating a rep. for high value products that also have an outstanding base level of quality.
A 'high value' projector along these lines would be under $5K tops.
16:9 native (-duh), have a sepp. hi-qual. scaler/input module (avail. as projector only or an Outlaw combo deal for plug-n-play people and HTPC tweakers), with one digital cable run to the projector.
Only equaling the contrast and brightness levels of current systems under $5K would be good enough.
Obviously 500:1 or 1500 lumens isn't perfect, but that's plenty good enough for a budget high quality system. We can't ask for everything and still want it to be 'budget', but most of us WILL ask that it be 'budget'.
Three-Five Systems makes a LCoS chip that's can do 720P. A later model could use their newest chip that can do 1080P!
I've seen too many stuck DLP pixels to trust them enough. LCoS (like JVC, Three-Five, Displaytech uses) sounds like the far cheaper than DLP, yet equal quality route.
Lastly, bulb life is a huge concern since that'll double to triple the cost of a budget projector.
I just read that a company is gonna be using one white CRT tube as a light source to get a 25,000 hour 'bulb' life. If that's true (you know rumors) and'll work... uh... use that!
Since portability shouldn't be a concern with most of us looking for a perfect budget F.P., a fairly smallish, fairly light 25,000 hr. CRT-as-light-source system wouldn't be at ANY disadvantage to a 3.3 pound portable with only 1000-2000 bulb life.
-Or if white LED as a light source is possible, look into that. Though I think that one's waaaaay down the road (for now).

Outlaw has a chance to jump into this segment at the begining. CRT F.P. has always been too costly and huge for most people, and the microdisplay systems are still almost all designed for buisness use. Yamaha, JVC, InFocus, NEC... they're all just starting to take a crack at the huge home F.P. market. Beat 'em to it!!
Don't let people here discourage you from doing this, saying, -"$10k... then don't do it!".

Under $5K, you can do it!

-sermon ends

Looks like www.fusionlighting.com has the solution to the light source question! If they're far enough along to get to the production stage???
Super bright electrodeless sulfer/argon filled quartz spheres excited by radio frequency. They say a golfball sized 'bulb' is as bright as 100 100W bulbs!?! WOW, and lasts at least 10K hours!!
No fan. No light leakage. Tiny, and super bright. Mate that to 3-5 system's 1200x1920 3-chip RGB microdisplay solution, and you'll have everything everyone ever wanted!!

Remember back in June when I said that $10K is just too much for a projector? In the meantime, the NEC LT150 business projector (often recommended for home theater by the folks on http://www.avsforum.com) dropped to under $2,500 online, Sharp introduced the Z9000u which sells for under $10,000 at RETAIL, and Plus started selling the HE-3100 Piano for $3,000 direct. I bought a Piano; my review is at http://www.greengart.com.

-avi

[This message has been edited by Avi (edited December 26, 2001).]

Setting the scaler externally should not be a big issue, since many companies like Runco are doing that. What Outlaw should do is stuff the Faroudja DVP-5000 into their $3k projector, and got to get that 1920x1080 DLP chip, or else you would be wasting that scaler.

With the success of the panasonic ae100, NEC LT150, and the piano projector I think it may be time to start thinking a DLP is not that far out of reach anymore. Who knows in 6 months? This is something I would love to see.

That Pannie's LCD I think, and has some minor pixel screendoor issues.

I bought the Plus Piano when they had thier 10 day full refund trial offer. Glad I did it then, 'cuz I saw rainbows with it. Not much, but they were there. My wife saw them like crazy. And I didn't mention the 'rainbow' effect to her 'cuz I heard people have a better chance of seeing them if they know to look for them.

Sound&Vision declared this proj. 'rainbow free' in the issue that came out the same week we got it. Wrong again you morons. And this was the fastest DLP color wheel out at the time (maybe still the fastest?).

The image quality was great sitting at about 2.5x screen width. I defocused the lens just a hair to give me zero screen door effect.
Watched Moulin Rouge (sp?) on it. Silly MTV video movie IMO, but looked GREAT -minus the rainbows and not true black blacks (the room had white walls at the time, but zero lights on).
The B&W classic Citizen Kane looked very good on it too.

Sent it back (the rainbows drove my wife nuts, and they would've probably annoyed me a lot more over time too) and spent the same exact 3 grand on a Mitsu 65" HD-RPTV.

Far better black level /contrast, no huge bulb costs to think about, full HD resolution, looks far better in daylight, Zero pixels at ANY normal distance, and since it's ~3' closer to our couch than the 80" screen (we had attached to the wall) I used for the Piano, the picture's not really much smaller than the Piano's either.

Note, you can use as big a screen as you want w/ thePiano, but Plus says 80" for best picture and because of the low light output I wouldn't degrade the picture just to make it bigger in my opinion either.

The same Moulin Rouge DVD looks a tiny bit less filmic on the Mitsu (probably because of the better contrast rather than for any real negative reason). The black level has much more depth, and I don't have to plunk a quarter into the 'bulb jar' every half an hour like I would have to do with the Piano.

Projectors need to have the brightness to handle a very large screen and moderate daylight use, very long bulb life, great black level, and HD resolution in a price that rivals the current HD-RPTV's on the market. It can't be done yet.

I wanted a digital proj. for a looong time, but by the time the price came down and the performance grades went up (in the form of the $3K 80" screen Plus Piano) it still couldn't beat the $3K HD CRT RPTV I ended up with a few days after the Piano got shipped back.

Now I want an 80" digital microdisply RPTV next (be it DLP, LCoS, or whatever)!
Pretty huge black box width and height-wise, but should be pretty shallow depth-wise and fairly light.

It could even be a 'tabletop' style model -meaning that you could use your own stand for it which could be equiptment shelves for extra great use of space.
Bulb life should be really good compared to CRT life, and it should be great in daylight use just like any RPTV is.

Probably not a very good internet sold product though for Outlaw. I think I've given up on front proj. though at least for now, it's still playing catch-up unless you want to spend a LOT of dough or live with a LOT of compromises.

BTW, I wrote a 'Piano: six month's later' column in addition to my original review; both are available at http://www.greengart.com/askavi.htm .

Azyran,

Sorry to hear you're so sensitive to rainbows. Most people aren't.

But even so, I also considered a RPTV before buying a PLUS Piano. In my case, I simply couldn't fit a RPTV larger than 53" down the stairs to my basement home theater. My choice: either upgrade my analog 53" RPTV to an equally sized HD-capable RPTV, or keep the analog model and supplement it with an 84" (4:3) screen and projector. The size difference there is enormous, and when it comes to involvement / suspension of disbelief / losing yourself in the movie ...size matters.

In terms of Outlaw, I just can't see how they can play in this space. Later this year PLUS and InFocus are expected to release home theater projectors based on TI's HD2 chipset - 720p, better blacks, better contrast, brighter - in the $6~7K range. One (or both) of those companies may OEM them for a major consumer electronics brand for sale through big box retailers. 480p units (the PLUS Piano and InFocus ScreenPlay) currently sell for $3-4K, and might go down in price further with HD2 versions. The PLUS unit has wonderful ergonomics, and both of them were designed with home theater performance in mind.

So how could Outlaw compete?

To provide their usual value proposition, Outlaw would have to hit insane price targets for a 480p unit - basically, they'd have to sell an Outlaw Piano for $2K, and an Outlaw Sharp 9000 for $4-5K. Even if they did, PLUS and InFocus have the economies of scale, capital, and Internet distribution model to compete with Outlaw on price. Nobody else could, though, because everyone else has dealer margins to protect. So if Outlaw can hit those price targets - and I SERIOUSLY doubt they can - they can play the digital projector game. Otherwise, I think you'll see them sit on the sidelines until some new technology comes along that changes the rules of the game. Maybe 1080p LCOS, or something else 18 - 24 months out.

-avi

------------------
Sr. Product Marketing Manager looking for new position to pay for home theater gear. Leads? Questions? AskAvi@Greengart.com. Thanks.

[edited for html syntax error]

[This message has been edited by Avi (edited May 09, 2002).]

Thanks for the 950
It was welcome respite from the winter in Chicago a few months ago to get Outlaw News on the 950 in January, February, March, and April on the progress toward shipping the 950. I was on the list, but not near the top I assumed, since I did not register until later on registration day. (But that is OK according to my wife because it saves the AmX card from inevitable pain.) I found it somewhat amusing over the past few months reading many of the comments on the forum. It seems that a number of the Outlaw customers are in need of a support group as their lives seem to be too closely linked with the delivery of a new video control preamp albeit a well made and finely engineered one (I am sure). I also sense that most have never designed or manufactured anything either. Since I was also waiting for sources in China (delayed by the New Year) to deliver crucial component parts of a new electronic systems (not in the high-fidelity audio market) for introduction in a couple months, I understood completely the situation. The decision to make the 950 correct before shipping was the right one, and I am sure the Outlaws will be rewarded in the end for the delay.

I received my 950 last week. It’s installed and running just fine. I am still learning the ins’ n outs of operation and expect that to continue for several weeks. The 950 looks good and sounds good, and I expect that to be the case for several years to come. I claim the 950 technology meets the application requirements at 90% for 90% of the home systems out there for at least the next 3 years if not 5 years. The Outlaws are not addressing the 10% fringe who would pay 4 to 5 times the cost for 10% improvement in performance, i.e., the “more money than sense” crowd. Frankly speaking, the audio chain is not the problem for the cinema experience in the home - may be 10 years ago, but not now.

What the World Needs now:
But the 950 is not my reason for writing this note, rather it is to jog The Outlaws and the forum on the progress towards a cost effective and high quality video projector. I have noticed that interest on the forum for this subject has waned, but I must assume that this is still in the Outlaw “headlights” as eminent. Oh yes, and Outlaw's, do not listen to the complainers about announcing product in advance of shipping. Many of us can plan and wait, and we appreciate the heads-up info. (i.e., we are grown-ups). It would be great interaction, as it was for the 950 to keep your past and future customers informed as to the progress of new product. The “whiners” on the fringe are useful but not the benchmark for product planning. I remember fighting for Laser disc in the 80’s when the world was enamored with VHS, so whiners are useful in the long run.

The 90% market needs presentation products that address the current home theater AV sources, which are primarily over-the-air and cable NTSC that at best are EDTV, the coming HDTV, and pre-recorded DVD sources as 480p. These are the sources now and for the next 3 years at least. Satellite is growing but will never be more than 30% of the market if the majority of their broadcast do not delivery more zing in performance (and content to some extent) than cable. Blue-Ray and D-VHS are nice but not relevant until at least the 2005-2007 time frame. Gary Reber and WSR have placed considerable promotion behind D-VHS, and no doubt it’s a fine example of the great engineering that JVC has become known for, but it is not relevant until the price drops to at least $599 for the deck and parity with DVD for the source (disk). There are several “as good as needed for the source” DVD players out there in the $200 - $400 price range. A much higher price for a terminal source such as DVD is questionable. Smart money does not need cast aluminum frames, fancy feet, and esoteric materials for DVD. But what 90% of videophiles do need are a couple cost effective projectors. For a real home theater experience, the picture needs to be projected from the front, meet very good performance standards for the next 5 years, be reasonably priced, and be small in size as compared to the majority of today’s solutions. I believe the outline below states what is needed.

And Now the Details:
With a new projector in mind, I would like to suggest my product proposal again (from last years correspondence) as follows (A.K.A., 20 points to video happiness):
1. Use DLP as the digital-to-optics core
2. Build two projectors with the same base/motherboard for electronics
3. Use the same optics front-end for both projectors
4. Use a low-cost bent metal chassis as the primary element for stability and cost
5. Weight under 20 lbs. for both projectors, 10 – 12 lbs. would be the best
6. The lower cost unit should use the 848x600(480ip) DMD and the other uses the 1280x720p DMD
7. Use the new TI chipset for control (HD-1 and HD-2?)
8. Both should use at least the 6 segment 4x speed color wheel at 240 Hz equiv. Or greater
9. Lens with focus and throw for 8’ – 18’ from screen with 60” – 100” diagonal
10. On screen selectable 4:3 or 16:9 with letterbox and super letterbox wide screen loosing scan lines (not the best, but a cost effective compromise)
11. At least 800 L on the screen and 600:1 contrast for all video sources
12. Use the Faroudja DCDi chip for progressive scan from DVD
13. 3:2 pull-down option (part of the DCDi) for cinema
14. Manual focus standard, remote control an option
15. Sync to 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i for NTSC and HD video input
16. Inputs selectable on remote (optional) as composite, S-video, and component/RGB (the first and third on quality RCA jacks)
17. Don’t worry about computers, they have plenty of projectors to work with, so no computer interface please
18. Don’t make a projector for only the rich videophiles and zealots, they also have enough to choose from (i.e., Runco, etc.)
19. Forget about the DVI interface for the next three years (but maybe as a future retro-fit option on the better projector), 10% of the 25 million + DVD players out there could care less (as a potential customer pool)
20. Target DVD 480p, over-the-air EDTV and HDTV broadcast, normal S-VHS, a handful of direct satellite channels, and maybe D-VHS by 2004 if the price comes down.

Explanations:
The list above enumerates the important elements; all others that impact cost are unjustified features. The retail price from The Outlaws (direct) for the smaller unit should be $1900 - $2200, and for the second, higher resolution unit, it could be $3400 - $3800 for the initial rollout. More than this cost will not be market relevant now or over the long run. The smaller unit would be primarily for the DVD crowd while the (barely) HD unit is for over-the-air/satellite/digital HD tape video sources. SIM2, Runco, and others announced new projectors a few months ago (and apparently started deliver recently) retailing at $10K and $15K using the above components. They cannot have any market impact at that cost level, and represent limited perceived value to the consumer. I have seen both and the Yamaha and Sharp projectors – they are not worth the usual $10K+ asking price. I would stick with DLP since it looks like LCOS technology cannot ship unless the cost is much higher and the performance is lower than anticipated. (No one can apparently make LCOS with sufficient process yield.) Do not worry about multiple lense choices or super high performance – remember the source. (There is no true anamorphic source material on DVD - for example - that I know of.) If we can get at least 500+ line horizontal video resolution on the lower cost projector and 1000+ lines on the better unit on the screen, then they will considerably more value for the price than available now. These relatively small and straightforward projectors cannot cost 4 times the price of big furniture boxes, mirrors, and CRT RPTV boxes with essentially 50-year-old technology. Well that’s the outline – any comments.


[This message has been edited by JDB001 (edited May 21, 2002).]