Why is three chip better? Don't you get convergence problems?

Matthew,

Properly designed three chip projectors should not have convergence problems (though it's certainly a manufacturing issue). The advantages to three chip designs are:

1. Potential for better color fidelity and greater color control.
2. Elimination of artifacts that can be introduced by spinning color wheels. Faster and differently designed wheels have reduced the "rainbow" problem and even eliminated it completely for most people, but it's still an open issue for enthusiasts and a highly sensitive minority.
3. Potential for slightly quieter operation (the color wheel makes a high pitched noise in some single chip designs).
4. Potential for higher light output (not necessarily needed for the home market, but often desired anyway).

-avi

Avi,

How do you 'over-drive' a DLP set??
CRT's ... sure. That's easy.

Since DLP uses a single light bulb that is always fully on, and the only thing a DLP chip does is deflect that light, you can overdrive it.

TI's scanning spiral color wheel should pretty much eliminate the need for costly three chip systems.

Again... Avi doesn't know that current color wheels eliminate rainbow effect for most people. He just thinks it's probably true. I'll keep correcting you on this as long as you keep telling people this.
No one's ever done a large scale test of it. Most people have never even seen a DLP projector.
My and I wife saw rainbows like crazy on the Plus Piano (which is what Avi has). My wife had no idea what the effect was until I explained it to her.
Some people don't see rainbows until they find out about them and then they notice that they're there.

Like if I point out a crack on your windshield that you didn't notice, and then it bothers you every time you drive your car.

Avi said - "Potential for slightly quieter operation (the color wheel makes a high pitched noise in some single chip designs).

What current projectors have color wheels that are audible? I say none.

Fan noise... now that's an issue, though it's almost nothing in rear projection, and only slightly louder in most current HT DLP FP's.

Face it Outlaw ISN'T going to make a projector. There's nothing stopping Outlaw from making one, othre than they probably just don't want to get into the video market yet (if ever), and the fact that companies like Plus and Infocus and Sharp already make very low priced systems that outlaw probably couldn't match in price/preformance. It's just seems to not be thier field.

This thread is VERY VERY OLD. Give up.
If anyone want one, just go buy one. Don't wait for Outlaw to make one.

Actually this looks pretty good -

http://www.optoma.com/public/rptv_65_50.htm

Lots of tweaks....

How do they overdrive the DMD? Or are they oversizing the lamp or something?

Charlie

Charlie,
If you look up, you'll see I just asked Avi this.

I already know the answer though -"You can't".

I just like givin' him a hard time 'cuz he likes says some mis-information quite often IMO.

He'll tell you why the best options are the only ones he knows about too. Can't blame him I guess, but can't agree either.

Check out his AskAvi web site. He posted it here himself, so I checked it out.

Page one -someone asked about 'big screens' and Avi ONLY talked about front projectors -and not all that informed or accurately either.

The basic conclusion seeing to be -get the Plus Piano ('cuz he's got the Plus Piano). Manipulative IMO.

When someone says Big Screen they mean RP 99.99% of the time IMO, and he didn't even mention them like they don't exist.

You can read this post backwards as see my take on this issue.

I think if you have a website meant to solicit questions like these (and you post it on forums like this), you ought to really know what you're talking about very well, and not omit entire categories of information 'cuz you don't think people should be told about them.

Just my opinion though.

Don't mean to be harsh Avi, but I call 'em like I see 'em.

Yeah, that Optima looks awesome!

That's just the type of set I've been talking about. None of the problems Front pj's have, and it's still a huge HD picture in a thin depth table top design.

I hope it actually hits the market. Many hopeful sets like this type have failed to do so.

If you read an earlier post I made here you'll see me describe this exact design, but in an 80" model which would blow away a FP like the decent/value Plus Piano.

Check out www.scramtech.com

They haven't updated in a looooong time which looks pretty bad, but their screen (if able to be put into mass production) would make these RP designs even thinnner, and higher contrast, and more resistant to ambient room light.
Samsung's been hooked up with them, but so far nothing on the market. Too bad.

Digital microdisplay RP's are already lighter, cheaper, have better longevity, and better pixel fill than Plasma. They're not as thin, but they're still 'pretty' thin.

And if you're not looking for a GIGANTIC screen (only HUGE -heh), this should be the best price/quality design.
And you don't have to worry about costly bulb life like a front pj version (RP's use ~100 watt, fairly cheap 10,000 hr. rated bulbs).
And you don't have to turn the lights off or paint the walls black to have excellent black level.

Charlie,

How do you overdrive a DLP? Literally, you can't - but it's hard to describe things you see on new technologies without using pre-existing terminology. You could just as reasonably object to the term "anamorphic DVD," as there really is no such thing. But since the term describes the phenomenon reasonably well, the term stuck. Here, too, the DLP sets Samsung showed at Home Entertainment 2002 appeared like overdriven CRT sets. In other words, they had their contrast and/or brightness and/or color settings adjusted for maximum punch at the expense of accuracy. They exhibited extremely high contrast, high color saturation (flesh tones were a bit warm), and "clipped" or "blooming" highlights (bright areas such as whites lost some of the gradations in color). I have experimented with similar settings on my own HD1-based DLP projector, so I have some basis for comparison. While I could easily see that the Samsungs' HD2 contrast improvements were real - and quite impressive - it wasn't possible to tell just how significant the improvements would be with the settings pulled back into ranges that produce a more accurate picture. As I mention in the article, some other manufacturer reps were claiming that all the sets on the second floor were suffering from magnetic forces from the subway system (I don't make this stuff up, I promise).

Most single chip DLP projectors for the business market have audible color wheels. It's not the decibel level, rather the pitch - it can be quite grating. Thankfully, the latest DLP designs - for both business and pleasure - seem to have muffled the wheel. Mostly what you hear is the fan.

As to azryan's critiques of my columns, they're at http://www.greengart.com/askavi.htm - judge for yourself.

-avi

[This message has been edited by Avi (edited July 15, 2002).]

Good Morning All,
I've read this entire thread in an attempt to further my video education. I'm currently reading all of the information I can find on current and thoretical technologies pertaining to video. Quite a daunting task! I appreciate all of the views, both objective and subjective contained herein.
After all of my continued searching, I still come to a few conclusions that I just can't get past. I'm hoping you knowledgeable video types can help me. Even with all of the improvements to FP and RP systems, I still find the images darker than I'd like, the viewing 'sweet spot' much smaller than I'd like, and the pictures just don't 'seem' as sharp or accurate as tube systems. I just haven't seen an RP or FP system that compares to a tube system. The only time that I've seen an FP system that I was impressed with, was when I was doing a show in conjuction with a GE Light Valve projector with a 40', yes foot, image. And still we had to dim the room lights.
I would love to have a 60", or so, image to put into the room that I'm designing. the problem is that when I do a side-by-side comparison between RP, FP, et.al., and tubes, there just is no comparison!
Please provide me a list of your favorite products and configurations as I'd like to go see them for myself. I'm sure that I'm just not looking at the right gear. If you would, please include varying price levels so that I can see both what is possible and what is practical.
I very much appreciate your help on this. If I can be of any assisstance on the audio side, please don't hesitate to ask.
Mix