Hi folks. I almost pulled the trigger on the $299 970 this weekend, but then realized I really don't know what I'm doing. So I'm turning here, not necessarily for direct help but primarily for suggestions as to how to get help myself.

Though tips are appreciated.

Here's the deal: Where are some places a total newbie can find the "basics" of building a home system?

(Starting at under $1k)

Here's my larger question in case you have your own tips.

I've longed for a solid home system for a long time. I am a singer and have done my share of recording, but never invested in anything at home. For the past 8 years we have listened to music through... gasp... our TV speakers.

So while even an iPod dock-with-speakers would be a step-up I'd like to make some smart choices. But I'm having a hard time understanding what I might want and what I might not. Pre-amp? Amp? Receiver? Subwoofer? We have kids who sleep while we watch TV, so maybe a sub doesn't make sense?

I am also pretty sure I just want a 2- or 2.1-speaker setup for now. I won't use surround sound, and the bulk of our listening is music. (70% music; 20% TV; 10% movie)

One other note: ALL of our content will come straight from a single source: windows HTPC. I have our music library ripped in various high-quality formats; TV in HD via an antenna; Blu-Ray drive. This is really getting into the weeds but this is what my outputs look like:



Anyway, I thank you for the pointers!

john

If you look further down the list of topics here you will find lots of discussion about how to find good speakers. IT takes time and effort to find the ones you like, and it does not have to cost a fortune, especially if you're willing to buy used speakers.

A receiver, integrated amp, or preamp/amp combo it a tougher question. For the system you describe you probably don't need a 970 and separate amp, especially if all you're looking for now is 2 channel. There are some 2 channel systems out there, but they probably occupy the high-end stereo market. Most of the low-end stuff has gone to 5.1 or 7.1 channel. Once again, you might find some very good used 2 channel equipment at reasonable prices. For that, too you need to go listen. Don't make a snap decision.

The 970 at $299 is a very good price, but keep in mind you also need an amp, whether that comes in the form of a 5.1/7.1 channel amp or 2 monoblocks.

Welcome to the Saloon Yakimiiis! You will find lots of folks in here willing to help with this HT/Stereo hobby.

The time honored advice is to spend the most money on the source (e.g. DVD, CD, LP) and speakers. Your source is set so I agree with Bob Backer to spend your time listening to speakers. I wouldn't shy away from bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer versus full range speakers. With bookshelfs you will have more flexibility with placement and the sub can be tucked away in a corner and when you want low frequency effects they will be there via the subwoofer. The rest of the time the sub will take care of low frequencies from your music. Since all your music is on your computer it would be very handy to have a pre/pro or receiver that has USB input and DAC. The receiver with a USB input looks like a sound card to the comuter. For example Outlaw's RR2150 stereo receiver has a USB input. If you used the RR2150 the video side of your setup will need to run directly from the sources (cable, DVD, HTPC) to the TV.

Enjoy!

The 970 at $299 is an excellent deal but will need an amplifier too. HTPCs are not as flexible as the 970 when it comes to hookups and may be more of a pain than $299 shelled out. If you are going to use your PC as the Pre/pro you will still need an amplifier to drive speakers. The output of your HTPC would go to the input of the amplifier and the output of the amp to whatever speakers you select. Spend your $$$ on speakers if you have to stay within a budget. Your listening space will likely dictate the size of the speakers and they will dictate the size of the amp. Very good setups can be had with small speakers supplemented by a subwoofer. That allows you to go smaller in the amp area because subs are usually self-amplified. Go to listen to speakers with your favorite music if possible. Many internet speaker companies will let you audition their speakers in your home for 30-60 days and if you don't like them send them back. Outlaw, Aperion, Axiom are a few that you should check out. As far as amps go you will not get a better deal or customer service than Outlaw. Right now you can get the 970 and the 7025 amp for $799 plus shipping.

Hey guys, wow, thanks for the overnight answers. Sorry to be an idiot.

Again, if there are sources beyond manually asking this or other forums where you think I can better learn let me know. I assume many friendly salespeople would help in a local shop....

Anyway the questions that remain for me:

what's the role an amp plays? (In my prior life I simply had a receiver + speakers.) Amplifier does just that? Pumps the signal and powers it to speakers? I realize now in looking at the 970 that it has preamp outputs, but no speaker outs. That would have been a tip-off!

I gather that a pre/pro is used to corral various inputs, is that correct? You pipe DVD and CD and (possibly) HDMI and LP into the pre/pro and then it goes out through amp to speakers? Thus you have one device that controls all switching? What's the diff between pre/pro and receiver? Lack of a tuner?

Thus to Xenon's point I prob for now can get by with simply an amp and speakers? I have no other real need for a pre/pro until i need to corral other inputs?

The receiver is a combo pre/pro and amp all in one box. It typically has all the capabilities to corral all the inputs and direct outputs to speakers and display devices such as a TV or projector. Some of us like the flexibility of a separate amp so we can upgrade power occasionally. Also most recievers output power is less than what you can get for a dedicated amplifier. Typically recievers generally don't exceed 150 watts per channel output and that is about the limit because they need to keep all the parts cool. A separate amp allows us a far wider choice of what speakers we choose to power because amplifiers are available in all kinds of wattages from 10 to 1000s of watts. A lot of receivers have the capability to isolate their amp section from the pre/pro section to allow use of an outboard amp. For advice just google home theater and a bunch of online magazines will be found. Also try AVSforum.com

The amplifier is what takes a low wattage signal and amplifies it to a higher wattage signal to drive your speakers.
A reciever has the amplifier built in so it has speaker outputs.
A pre-pro like the 970 requires a seperate amplifier (thus pre-pro/amplifier combonations are referred to as seperates).
The pre-pro or reciever also provides other functions such as source selection,volume control, converting digital signals supplied by a sourcs like your computer to analog so the amplifier can use it to drive the speakers, and bass management ( seperating the higher frequency sound that is sent to the speakers fro the low frequencies that are sent to the sub-woofer, and applying other audio and perhaps video processing functions.
The sound card in you computer can serve many of the same functions as a pre-pro but still requires an external amplifier and only controls signals from the computer so in most cases, it cannot be used to feed your tv audio or signals from other devices to the speakers.
Another option is powered speakers. in this case, the amp is built int the speaker, so the signal from the pre-pro or sound card goes directly to the speaker to be processed.This is how computer speakers work and some are made to connect to the variable audio output of your tv so the tv becomes you source switching device.This is kind of a dead-end solution though as there isn't a logical upgrade path should you be intrested in improving you sound quality in the future.
It all kind of boils down to the quality of sound and flexibility that you expect from your system now and may wish to attain in the future.
I hope this helps a littel.
Above all have fun and enjoy the music.

You probably should visit the Gonk College of Home Theater and Audio for a pretty comprehensive education that is applicable to 2 channel as well as 5+ channel systems.

http://prillaman.net/ht_dvd_index.html

Yakimiiis, do you use a tuner at all? If you don't, and the HTPC supplies all of your input signals, another solution is to just buy a power amp. Your HTPC will provide sufficient signal to drive a power amp directly and provide the input switching without needing the other features of a receiver or pre/pro. In essence, your HTPC is the pre/pro. That will require you use the analog outputs of the HTPC, but this should be adequate. I have an inexpensive computer sound card, and I'm satisfied with the sound quality using an inexpensive receiver for amplification and large bookshelf speakers. Interconnects are available that will adapt the 3.5mm jacks on the HTPC to phono inputs. I haven't shopped for 2-channel amps, so can't suggest a bunch of sources, but I do know that internet supplier Parts Express has several different ones to choose from starting at $160 for their Dayton APA150 with AudioSource 2-channel amps starting at $200. This will provide you with decent electronics at a price that will leave plenty left over to buy some nice speakers. Your HTPC will also provide adequate output drive for any powered sub, so if you decide to go 2.1 channel, just select a sub in your budget and hook it up to the HTPC with the same 3.5mm to phono plug interconnects.

In addition to the Internet speaker brands already mentioned, I'll add Ascend Acoustics. They also have good quality,modestly-priced speakers. I'm biased toward dual woofers, and Ascend is one of the few that has dual woofers in a non-tower speaker other than a center channel.

Bill

Something you may wish to check out: This month's "Stereophile" had a rave review by Sam Tellig of Mordaunt-Short Carnival 2 bookshelf speakers that sell for $250. I have no idea where you would go to audition these, but it does indicate that you can get some very good sound within your budget.

All:

Thank you for the great replies. Bob Becker in particular THANKS for the great reference to the Gonk College of Home Theater and Audio, which I'm including again here to simply reinforce its value.

http://prillaman.net/ht_dvd_index.html

Also thanks for all the suggestions KOYAAN and TMH, and Xenon/AvMan for the tips. Clearly I need to do some Gonk studying to evaluate them all. But given a small (relatively) budget (prob under $1k) I think most likely I'm going to invest in an amp and speakers, ultimately ending up with:

HTPC > amp > speakers

...which given what I've been suffering with, will be a huge step up I hope? we'll see.....

Try this for inexpensive systems and advice.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/buyersguides/htibs/

Should you proceed and get your self some new speakers, I guarantee it Welcome to the Saloon. Check out the Audiogon.com site for deals on used speakers after you do some research on what you will purchase!

Look at the Outlaw outlet on the home page. There are some Atlantic Technology speakers at a great price. You can audition them at home and send them back if you don't like them.

These speakers are going to be ready for sale in about a month (the first shipment is in the water).
http://tweakcityaudio.com/index.php?page...uemart&Itemid=1
I haven't heard them but Danny Ritchie is an excellent designer.

For a two channel integrated amp I would highly recommend the Virtue One/Two (I have the Two):
http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ia-ap11-1.htm
You can also switch a jumper inside to use it as a power amp. The virtue, however, does not have a remote control so if that is important you might want to look at the Outlaw RR2150, although, that would blow most of your budget.

For a subwoofer there is b-stock Outlaw LFM-1 Compact available right now (b-stock have free shipping). The Outlaw subs are excellent or look at the HSU STF-2 as another good candidate:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

edit:
You know, Emotiva is just releasing a product that I was hoping Outlaw would do. An analog stereo preamp with HT bypass. What this means is that normally you would use it for all you music listening, but if at a later date you decided to go multi-channel you use an AVR and select the home theater bypass when watching movies. The bottom line you get the best sound for music and still benefit from multi-channel.
http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

So:
Emotiva USP-1 $400
Virtue One $290
WAF-1 $230
-------------------
$920

That would be an excellent future ready system and add a subwoofer later or substitute the subwoofer for the USP-1 using manual volume control and pick up the USP-1 later.

hey folks, just want to say thanks again for all the assistance/pointers. i am a "both feet first" type of guy and given what I'm coming from ANYthing is going to be a huge improvement. thanks to both commentary here and my own brief research I think I'm going to take the plunge here:

• VirtueONE with the upgraded 30v power supply (http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ia-ap11-1.htm) -- thanks dvenardos
• Ascend 340SEs (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html) -- $518 shipped for a pair

At this point I'm going to simply go HTPC > V1 > speakers and as I upgrade in the future I will add a sub and then individually build from there.

Whaddya think?!

This sounds like a nice music setup!

That's an interesting amplifier. Please let us know how that works out for you.

Ascend has a great reputation, that should be a fabulous two-channel system.

Congrats,
Don

thanks all, I will report back when I get this thing fired up, though I suspect my report will be as uninformed and worth as much as my initial question...

I am cross-posting this at the Ascend forums as well but the one thing I failed to think about before yesterday was the shape/size of my room. i'm pasting a drawing below but basically we have a big one: 30x15 for the main "living area," but it's an open floorplan, so the kitchen is really part of a larger room that's in total 30x24. the TV sits near the center but diagonally facing the center of the living room.

i plan to put the speakers next to the TV. foresee any major problems?

(dark blue are walls for entryway and hallway)

that's a pretty large room not even accounting for not knowing what height you ceilings are. but i would thinl first and foremost your concern is matching your speakers needs to the amp's capabilities and then judging if the system will fill your space. i will say that i struggled with bookshelf speakers in my living room that is smaller than your space. personal pref is a factor of course.

I would think you will want larger speakers eventually to fill that size room. Especially for HT applications. I am struggling with a similar issue and have gone with a larger amp and likely will go with Axiom M80s or Aperion 633Ts for the other house. I did consider some Magnepan 1.6s but they are inefficient and I wanted to go with a 5.1 setup. I have heard them before and they are fabulous speakers for music and great for HT if setup right. Try to set you room up as symetrically as possible taking into account walls and floor reverberation effects. My house up north has a great room with 25' ceiling peaked in the center and occupies a huge volume because it is connected to a loft and foyer and kitchen area. I am holding out for the 997 for the Trinnov in hopes that it will help out with the reverberation. A lot can be gleaned from the various online HT mags and AVSforum but until its actually making noise I won't be able to tell what I need to do.

i'm trying to convince myself to go up to the Sierra-1 pair from Ascend instead.

That said, I rarely listen to music that's hugely pumped. We have young kids and my general preference is Yacht Rock.

And for reference, we are used to filling this room with speakers from our ten-year-old TV!

I've heard great things about those Sierra-1's. But without looking at the specific differences between those and the others you were thinking of ordering, I'm not sure that the differences will address your room size (as opposed to say, providing a more refined listening experience in a smaller room.)

The partial good news is of course that you have 30 days to try out the speakers. But I'm not sure you have that luxury with the amp company you're going with.

all, thanks for the help and setting me off on the course toward audio perfection. yes, perfection. i demand nothing less!

i have taken the plunge away from my TV speakers. what i ended up with:

• Emotiva UPA-2 (http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm)
• M-Audio 2496 sound card for RCA out straight to amp (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html)
• Those blasted Sierra-1s. Too pretty to ignore, plus I won't be in this huge room forever!

I am poor. Thanks for all the tips. Will be back after I'm set-up!

You are going to love your new system. The sound is going to be fabulous. Let us know when you get it up and running. Does your sound card have the capability to feed a subwoofer eventually. Even a small sub will give you great LFE when set up right.

Nice pickup!!! "I am poor." I love it. I always think/say the same thing to myself after a sweet purchase but if you bought the right thing it's the right kind of poor.