Hi all. I had the most frustrating, shocking experience with Hsu customer support today that I am utterly in shock of their solution. The reason I am posting here is to get this off my chest (vent), look for suggestions, and because Outlaw has partnered with Hsu on their subs.

I bought an Hsu VTF-2 sub in 2003, which had 1 year warranty on electronics and 5 year warranty on the woofer only. I had read some problems/reviews online around 1 year after I had already had my sub about the foam surround failing (cracking/splitting). I figured just a few faulty units or people driving them too hard. Well, last October, I notice mine is making a large popping sound with high db output. I send an e-mail to tech support to ask what may be at fault. The voice coil?, amp?, etc. I get a response to check the surround for cracks/integrity. Sure enough, the foam surround has hardened, become very brittle, and cracked/failed. So I ask how much a replacement will be, not knowing it is still under the 5 year warranty (which tech support failed to tell me, despite me telling them when I bought it), and they tell me to contact sales.

So before I did this, I check my original sales receipt and owner's manual, and sure enough it is still under warranty! Yeah for me! So I call sales and explain my problem. They tell me to send in the woofer and they will fix it if possible, or send me a NEW one (key word here). I get an e-mail stating that it cannot be fixed and they will therefore send a NEW replacement at no cost. So today I get the package, open it, and I find a decrepit, dirty, REPAIRED sub in the box that is NOT MINE. They actually sent me a refurbished 5 year old woofer, that looked much worse than my tip-top woofer (besides the cracked surround) when my 5 year old woofer failed simply for being old. I called to complain and they said there must be some mistake. I am about to send pictures at their request when I get a call from them. I answer and they tell me that there was no mistake, that they simply "cannot send everyone the latest and greatest items everytime something breaks as it would put us (them) out of business". He then goes on further about that if they had a new OEM replacement, I would have gotten that, but since they do not, that I should be grateful to get anything because if they did not have this old woofer laying around, I would have had to PAY for a NEW one, despite it being under warranty still. He continued to argue this point with me, and ended by saying, "well, do you want to send the woofer back that works and we will give you your old, broken, one back?"

Unbelievable!!! And the replacement costs $85 only. So in other words, if the OEM woofer cost $85 and they had a new one laying around, they would send that to me, but since they do not, I have to either get used crap, or pay full price (still $85 mind you!) for a comparable woofer that is new.

I would appreciate any imput on this. I did not know what else to do other than file a complaint with the BBB, which I did. I could slander them all over the web, but am waiting to see if they do right with the BBB involved.

p.s. I will post pics of the "replacement" if I can figure it out.

Sorry to hear about your problems, ecniemann. If you need help figuring out how to post pics, PM me...

That is really surprising. These online companies live or die based mainly on having strong customer support. Very unfortunate -- you might try explaining your situation to Pete or Dr. Hsu. Warranties should be honored!

Thanks for the replys guys! Yeah, that was my exact point! I even said to him, "you are going to risk the Hsu name and brand to save $85, lose a customer, and lose all the other customers I tell this story to?" And he still did not waver from his position.

Believe it or not, Pete is who I was speaking with. The odd thing is, today, when I called the first time to complain after being tremendously disappointed opening that package, he was all on my side. Less than 1 hour later, when he called back while I was just about ready to send him the pictures, he must have talked to someone, and all of a sudden it is my problem and I only deserve the crap I received. I am really bummed about this. It just bothers me. It is not even the money! I can easily afford another woofer, it is the principal and the fact that a company I believed in and talked highly about with others could do this. I honestly feel kind of betrayed. Again, I will post pics when more time and keep you updated how this pans out.

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulty. I also have a Hsu and have had no problem with the quality, though as I recall when I bought it they were currently advertising a special discount on their website but when I ordered, I was told the discount was no longer in effect. This didn't change my buying decision, but I was peeved.
I guess we're fortunate that we can now buy well designed Hsu products From a customer oriented company like Outlaw.

I have a VTF3 MKII that I had issue with some time back. The star nut, in which the adjustable feet thread into, became unattached from the cabinet.
When I called Hsu they acted as if they had no idea what I was talking about. On my own I removed the Amp and proceedeed to come up with a fix. After seeing how poorly the adjustable feet mechanism was designed I properly fixed the other 3 as well. This will be my last Hsu product based on my experence although I must say I love the sound it puts out.
On the positive side of direct internet companies, AV123 I had a most pleasant experence. My daughter wanted me to find and buy her some speakers for her home. I ordered 2 B stock speakers from AV123. The discription was " lightly scratched " , a picture showing the scratches was on the web site. After recieving the speakers those scratches were actualy chips in the veneer.There was also a slight noise resonance from 200hz- 120hz. While browseing the AVS site, the owner was posting in the speaker forums. I quickly sent him a PM. Within minutes I recieved a call from him . AV123 promptly , at no added cost nor shipping, sent me 2 more A-stock .
replacements.
You may want to send Peter Marks a PM over at AVS Forums and see if you can't get better treatment. I would think much bussiness is gained or lost over there.

Here are the pics. Hopefully they work. I have not heard anything further yet, but did get confirmation from the BBB that they sent my complaint to Hsu. I will check out the AVS forum if this does not get resolved. Thanks for the comments everyone so far.

Look closely at the dust cap and surround. You can see silicon caulk or something similar to seal cracks/damage. The surround should be perfectly smooth. This one is ridged, different colors even. And look how jacked up it looks with dirt. I really wish I would have taken a picture of my woofer. It looked mint compared to this. I could care less if this woofer technically works. Based on how it looks, it does not look like it would work very long. The white stuff all over the basket, magnet, etc is polyfill. It is in every crack, inside the basket, on the cone, etc. Mine was used for 5 years and had none of this on it.

http://www.dropshots.com/ecniemann#date/2008-05-12/05:14:09

http://www.dropshots.com/ecniemann#date/2008-05-12/05:18:48

Definitely pushes me more towards getting an AV123 MFW-15 to replace my aged Kenwood sub. I liked the VTF3-Mk3 because of the side firing sub, but I don't want to deal with poor support and/or quality issues.

I'd buy a sub from the Outlaws in a heartbeat but all of their big ones are down firing and I need one that is directional as this sub goes behind the seating area.

Hi Guys,

I am definitely saddened that someone would say hurtful things about our company all over the internet and with BBB without first voicing their displeasure to techsupport email first, but please allow me to respond to some of the criticisms.

Let’s get some facts straight first:

1) The woofer that we sent to Eric is not refurbished in any way. It has seen little use, and is in perfect working condition.

2) The woofer that we sent to Eric is the only woofer that we have in our possession that is optimal for the original VTF-2 subwoofer. Newer woofers are optimal only for the newer subwoofers, since newer woofers have different response and capabilities compared to the original.

3) The black coat around the surround was applied by one of our technicians to help improve the longevity of the woofer. The original VTF-2 woofer with foam surround had some issues with the surround splitting, so we applied the coat to help improve the long term reliability.

4) The woofer that Eric had originally sent to us was unrepairable and unuseable. The foam was not rotting, but rather the entire surround was split.

5) The original woofer vendor has been out of business for some time, so no more replacement parts for the original VTF-2 subwoofer other than the one woofer we had.

6) Eric went from a unit that basically did not function at all, to a unit that works perfectly and performs as good as new, for no charge from us.

So my question to Eric is, what do you want:

1) A woofer that is optimal for the original VTF-2 and that has a treated surround for improved long term reliability, OR

2) A brand new woofer that is not optimal for the original VTF-2 and was not designed for the original VTF-2?

We slave day and night, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week and 10-12 hours a day, to support our customers via phone/internet/email. We always try to go out of our way to repair old units to the original spec. So of course I take major offense when someone decides to criticize us all over the place without truly understanding our reasoning behind the decision in the first place.

Please let me know which option you want, 1) or 2), and I will pass it along to techsupport.

Sincerely,

Pete
Hsu Research

Bill, note that the gold brass feet on the VTF Mk2 models were not actually adjustable feet, but rather were supposed to be screwed in all the way.

Apologies for any lacking sales support in the past. My recommendation is to email techsupport with any questions that do not get resolved over the phone.

Sincerely,

Pete
Hsu Research