The Outlaw subs should work very nicely behind the seating area. If anything, having a downfiring woofer may actually help make it less directional in comparison. You don't want the subwoofer to sound directional, you want it to sound non-directional and non-localizeable. With an 80Hz crossover, you should be fine most of the time.

nt

Interesting thread............
Pete when you say isn't that what the 5 year warranty is for? The end of that statement makes it sound like Hsu has done something extra special instead of honoring it's basic obligation. Also it seems any company should keep the required repair parts in stock for the length of the warranty term or be able to supply a proper substitution.
If a company wants to use refurb/used components for warranty repair (I think that is acceptable) they should at least be properly cleaned prior to use. A technician adding the treatment to the surround shows me that Hsu is trying to make an improvement to a component, which is a good thing.

The underlying concern here is that a satisfactory replacement has been found for a woofer that failed (irreparably) under warranty. That much is clear, and both parties seem to agree on it. As for the rest, that seems to be the source of the difficulty. This debate may be best served if the involved parties try to find a way to discuss this further "off-line" (or at least without an audience) before we get too deep in over our heads here. There are two sides of the story that need telling, but ideally they can be exchanged in a calm and gentlemanly manner (everybody "playing nice") and a mutually satisfactory agreement reached.

Pete and Eric, I'd love to see posts from you guys that let us know everybody has gotten things resolved. HSU Research is a company that has made a valuable contribution to the internet-direct speaker industry (and thus to the internet-direct home theater industry), so as gunslingers I think we'd all be glad to see this end well for everyone involved...

Yes Keta, that is what we are supposed to do, I was just pointing out that the subwoofer should be working perfectly and to the original specs (with improved long term reliability), which is the goal of warranty service. The point is that we did have good intentions, even if it wasn't construed that way.

gonk, I did send Eric an email a couple days ago, still waiting to hear back...

(I just want to preface this by stating that I wrote it at work after checking the forums. I will post this and then respond to other posters that were done after I wrote this, but obviously before I posted this).

Pete, I was going to resolve this with you privately, and when the final outcome was settled, I was definitely going to be man enough to post the final outcome on this forum, good or bad. But since you decided to post your private e-mail to me publicly; here we are.

This will be long, so bear with me. The amount of stress this has caused me is in no way proportionate to the $85 I should have just spent on a new woofer, which is what I was going to do in the first place.


(see below e-mail with Hsu tech support in italics)
It works very well in your enclosure. No reason why you should have any problems with the replacement driver. Please call (714)666-9260 to get pricing. Tech support does not deal with pricing.

"ecniemann@juno.com" wrote:
Thanks for the tip, but I think I would rather just replace the woofer. How much is the replacement? Besides having a rubber surround, are there any other differences; basically I want to make sure the woofer/box configuration will remain tuned the same with a different woofer. If this does not fix the popping, how would returns (ie. the woofer) work in this situation?

-- HSU Technical Support wrote:
Our current woofers have rubber surrounds instead of foam. The new woofers should last for a long time. You can order one of those for replacement.

In the meantime, you can try to salvage your existing woofer by applying a thin coat of GE silicone II (clear) to the whole surround, building it up a bit thicker along the crack. Let it cure for 24 hours. It should be as good as new after that.

"ecniemann@juno.com" wrote:
I checked it. Yeah, the surround separated from the frame. It is very brittle and as soon as I touched it, it separated (tore) more, approx 1/4 of the circumference. This does not seem normal to only last 4.5 years and then become so brittle to tear. I have never had a speaker do this. I heard some things on-line about problems with these woofers separating like that. Do you have a compatible replacement (not the same woofer if it will tear this quick), and if so, how much? Or is there an aftermarket replacement that would be compatible (ie. alpine, kenwood, infinity, etc.) that would be the same impedance and work well with this sub's cubic volume and ports?
Thanks, Eric

-- HSU Technical Support wrote:
Most likely the woofer. Check to see if the surround has separated from the cone or frame. Push gently on the surround to see if the surround separates from the cone or frame. Another area to check is to see if the spider has separated from the cone or frame. This is the corrugated cloth inside the frame.

"ecniemann@juno.com" wrote:
Hi, I bought a VTF-2 sub back in May of 2003, so unfortunately it is out of warranty as far as I know. In the last 2 months, it has been popping and crackling with certain DVD's during low frequency peaks. Two movies that come to mind are the short film "Lifted" in Ratatouille, and Transformers during multiple scenes. It does not sound like it is bottoming out, just extremely distorted, like an electrical short, kind of like a scratchy record. I have not increased the gain at all, nor the output from the pre-amp and it is balanced correctly with a Radio Shack SPL meter; slightly hotter than the fronts/rears/center.
I am mainly wondering if the amp is to blame (a short, something loose) or if it is the voice coil or something on the woofer. What would the most likely culprit be and how much would it cost to fix this? I already bought a new sub, but it would be a shame to just throw this one out if it can be fixed relatively cheaply and easily as I could use it elsewhere.
Thanks, Eric
(end of e-mail string)


Since it was covered under warranty, I did not think this would be as big a problem as it turned out to be. I wrote that first post on this forum IMMEDIATELY after talking to you on the phone that day, thus being extremely angry and disgruntled at the time. Was it the best decision I ever made? No, absolutely not! But people do stupid things when angry, myself included, and it did make me feel better since I felt backed into a corner with no help or friends to help me resolve this, and the Outlaw forum seemed the best place to vent, since I respect everyone here fully and have nothing but accolades for Outlaw, their products, customers, and service. It was the ONLY forum/web space I put this info on, because of the support I received here from other members that I was lacking from Hsu, so it was erroneous when you stated that it was “posted all over the web”.

I am probably one of the nicest people anyone would ever meet in person. I have never been in a fist fight in my life, and I HATE confrontation, whether on the web, phone, verbal, public, or whatever, so this kills me that this is going on over $85! My ENTIRE dissatisfaction stemmed from our phone conversation the date of my first post, NOT from Hsu in general or their products.

Here are the facts of that conversation:
1. EVERY reason you gave me for not receiving a new woofer were monetary in nature. You did state the OEM company was no longer in business, and I completely understand that, and would have had no problem with my woofer being fixed (which was not possible) or receiving a NEW one, whether an OEM or comparable replacement. But I cannot be held at fault for conditions that are beyond MY control.
2. It IS USED, you state that. How can you vouch for where or how this woofer has been used in the last 5 years? I apologize for assuming it was refurbished, but you cannot blame me based on the appearance of it!
3. You did tell me that if you did not have an OEM, albeit used, woofer, that I would have had to PAY for a comparable replacement despite my sub still being under warranty! I think that is about the point I lost it during our conversation.
4. I did already talk to tech support before I ever called you (sales), and the e-mail chain I have inserted proves I did. It also shows that they (tech support) state “a new woofer will work fine with your enclosure” when I was willing to BUY a new one. So what changed when it needed to be replaced under warranty? Again, it comes down to monetary issues.

I have supported and loved my Hsu subwoofer since I got it 5 years ago, have recommended Hsu to multiple people, and respected Hsu tremendously as a leader in subwoofer design….until now. I think the sheer fact that I still have this subwoofer and want to keep using it speaks volumes for Hsu. I am just so disillusioned by how this was handled, that it makes me sick, literally. I feel like I was betrayed by a good friend.

I would however, like to apologize to all Outlaws and guests on this forum for having to view such an ugly conversation (especially Scott and others involved intricately with Outlaw design, manufacturing, etc.) because my post was never meant to be inflammatory toward Outlaw or Hsu in general or to ruin anyone’s opinions of their (Outlaw or Hsu) subs. I never wanted to be known as a brand basher, and I have NEVER said anything bad about Hsu’s products. This was ENTIRELY a customer service/support issue, and that was it. I never advised people to not buy Hsu! Posters/viewers can make their own decisions based on my experience. I am not trying to lead a rebellion or anything! I have bought items from companies when others have had bad experiences posted as reviews. Bad experiences happen, it just happens I was on the disgruntled end this time.

SO…after saying all that, I will answer your question, with a question, and let you decide what the outcome should be. After this, I am done with this conversation, Hsu, etc. due to the ridiculousness of this fight. I will report that it has been settled to the BBB and we are done. You will be happy, I will be happy, everybody will be happy! I will continue to view this thread, but will no longer contribute to it. If anyone wants to stay out of it publicly, feel free to PM me with any comments. I am sorry to waste everyone’s time with my issue.

So here is MY question to YOU Pete:
If the ONLY reason I was not sent a new woofer was due to monetary reasons, I would like option #2. This was never about money on my end. I was disgruntled by the apparent lack of concern over my concerns about the replacement.
BUT
If you honestly did only have my best interest in mind by sending me a woofer that is the only one that will work with my enclosure, then I will keep the replacement and forget about all of this.

Sincerely, Eric

Gonk, as always, you are the consumate professional of rationality and civility. I too would have liked to keep the remainder of this private, thus not posting about the e-mail Pete sent me. But since it is here....

Pete, that is great to here you had good intentions, but yes, it did not come off that way at all. I do not think you realize how hurt I was after our conversation, probably as hurt as you were when you heard from "a high profile source" about my OP here. I actually had a crappy weekend after I received your e-mail, that is now public, that was minus a few details left out (such as how you knew I posted here). I wanted to keep the remainder of this private, but since it is now public, let's be cival and finally settle this privately. Please either PM me or e-mail me (the same anyway) with any further comments on how to settle this.

Thanks, Eric

Hi Eric,

When I spoke with our technicians after the phone call, they told me that we provided the original VTF-2 driver (with a protective coating around the surround) primarily because it was more optimal for your unit. In general, unless there are no other alternatives, we try to fix or replace items to the original specifications of the unit.

If you really don’t feel comfortable with the 10” replacement woofer after the explanation I gave earlier about the protective coating on the woofer and about the woofer being optimal for the original VTF-2, then I can discuss with techsupport and we can send you a brand new woofer (albeit geared for the latest subwoofers).

It’s been quite stressful for us too in having to read about this on the internet and read about complaints with BBB, so let’s just try to get this resolved and move on with our lives.

Please let me know if you want a brand new woofer mailed out to you. You can simply respond to my email so that we don't have to go back and forth on the internet.

Sincerely,

Pete