I’ve been intrigued lately by the prospect of experimenting with different DACs to see if I could improve my CD playback. I’ve asked before about advice on a new CD player. Up til now I was using my HD-A2 to play CD’s, using an optical cable to the 1070, hence leaving the job of DA conversion to the 1070. In the pursuit of what I’ll call “a different” sound, I started looking at various used NAD and Rotel players on Ebay and Audiogon. I haven’t purchased anything yet but I consulted with my father in law and he gave me an interesting piece of equipment – it’s a Pioneer DVL-700 LaserDisc/DVD hybrid player.

He said that at the time it was produced, it was noted to have a very good DAC and it would be worth my time to try it out. And so I did.

I have to admit it was really fun to play around switching between the following scenarios and I have some questions that have cropped up as a result of my weekend experiment.

My three primary scenarios were:
1.) HD-A2 via optical to 1070, 1070 in “Stereo” mode with Digital Bass Management set to “Digital” – (my original setup)
2.) DVL-700 via analog to 1070, 1070 in Bypass mode – bass management same.
3.) DVL-700 via analog to 1070, 1070 in Stereo mode

My understanding of this is Scenario 2 is the most “pure” mode. I spent some time listening and relistening to an excellent rendition of Sinatra’s “when I was 17” – and to my pleasure was able to actually, for the first time, really notice the added warmth to the vocals in bypass mode, as well as the airyness to the background instruments. I found myself thinking – does a 9 year old source really have better DACs than my 1070? I think the answer was yes. Well, not necessarily "yes", but different, and different as my ears perceived, in that the player offered a more natural sound than what I'd been hearing. I was pleasantly surprised.

However I found that I preferred the added bass of running the 1070 in Stereo mode so as to include the subs.

Q: When running in Stereo mode (scen 3), is the ONLY processing for the bass? What is the essential difference between bypass mode and stereo mode, when the source and the 1070 are linked via analog cables?

More questions sure to follow, but I’m enjoying the ongoing experiment. If anyone has any recommendations of settings/modes to try out, please let me know.

Thanks!

You mention NAD, I have a C521i CD player and I think it's fantastic sounding. If I ever bought another CDP, I'd go with NAD again.

I purchased a Denon DVD-1940CI today to extend me experiment. really looking forward to the DVD-A and SACD exposure that I've lacked until now.

Just would like to say I'm really REALLY happy with my purchase...and loving the use of Bypass mode more than ever. Can't wait to get my multich. analog cables.

I use a Denon 39390Co I bought with a nice Discount cuase I coudl nor afoord the high cost. The DACs are high end yet after some time i have teh unit Modified and the SQ is like Analog Vinly!

Reds: Glad to hear you're enjoying the unadulterated pleasures of bypass mode! Like you, I experimented a bit with different CD playback options, including:
(1) A Cambridge Audio 640C
(2) A Squeezebox, with it's analog outs
(3) A Squeezebox, with digital out to the 970's DAC
(4) A Squeezebox, with digital out to a Musiland DAC
(5) A Squeezebox, with digital out to a Behringer SRC 2496, upsampled, then sent to the Musiland DAC.

I've been content with the last option for some time now and think I'll stay put for awhile.

In all cases, I listen in bypass mode with the bass management switch on the 970 set to HPF/LPF, that way everything is kept in the analog domain. It's a great set up for 2 channel listening and I'm very happy. SO happy in fact, it is with mixed emotions that I look forward to the 970's successor.

Best,

- VD

I recently connected my Pioneer Elite DV59AVi using the analog outs, but I haven't had a chance yet to do a close comparison. I have been using the 5.1 analog outs for DVDs, and I think that works very well for movies. So I'm looking forward to comparing CD playback.

Bob, what player are you using for movies when using the 5.1 analog out? I'm assuming you've compared your player's onboard decoding to your pre/pro?

Videodrome,

I only spent a little bit of time experimenting with the digital/HPF_LPF/bypass toggle on the back of the 1070. If I switch from digital to HPF/LPF, will my subs play in bypass mode? I didn't think they would. And if so, isn't there some analog > digital > analog conversion going on? I'd like to talk about this, and understand it better.

Without a 1070 or 970 in front of me, I'm going just from memory of discussions from when the 1070 was newly released. The bass management switch is there principally for the 7.1 Direct input, but I thought that I'd heard that the HPF/LPF switch would work with the stereo analog bypass mode just as well as it would with the 7.1 Direct input. And since the HPF/LPF switch engages a purely analog bass management circuit, it would not require any A/D/A conversion. The "Digital" position does produce an A/D/A conversion for the 7.1 Direct input, something that otherwise does not take place, but I hadn't ever heard of having it set to "digital" actually influencing the analog stereo bypass mode at all.

Gonk,

You're right about the toggle being set to digital not affecting the analog stereo bypass mode. My setup is toggled to "Digital" right now because before I started going down the analog path, "Digital" makes the most sense for me. When I go to bypass mode, the subs are off for sure. I originally calibrated my setup including my subs with that setting and I think, if I go to HPF/LPF to use the subs in my bypass mode, I'll have to spend some extra time setting the x-overs on my subs properly (~70-80Hz I'm thinking.)

But thank you for clarifying (or at least fuzzy recalling ) that the HPF/LPF switch engages a purely analog bass management circuit. I do love the bypass mode overall but for certain kinds of music, my mains don't reproduce the bass very well and I'd like to bring a little more of the low-end to my ears without "contaminating" my experiment with digital processing. I'm excited to go home and try this out

Can anyone else chimne in to confirm Gonk's statement re: the HPF/LPF?

Why not disable the crossover in your sub entirely? You've got the 1070's digital bass management for all digital sources (including stereo analog sources that are not being run in bypass mode), you've got an 80Hz analog crossover network for the 7.1 Direct input, and you either have no signal to the sub or that same 80Hz analog crossover for stereo analog inputs that are in bypass. Under those circumstances, there should be no reason to use the sub's crossover at all.

the crossovers in my subs are currently disabled and yep I'm letting the 1070's digital bass management handle the processing for all my digital sources. Until about a month ago, all my sources were digital.

Now I'm experimenting, and I like the way most of the frequency band sounds over analog bypass then via the 2ch. "Stereo" mode. But I'm missing that low end kick from my subs. If I read the above posts correctly, I can use my subs in an all-analog environment by flipping the Digital Bass Management toggle to "HPF/LPF", which infuse an analog cross over of 80Hz. That's how I took the recent posts in this thread. If I'm wrong about something, please let me know.

Now, if I switch to HPF/LPF on my 1070, what effect if any does that have on my subs in digital modes? Any whatsoever? Is the 1070 still going to handle the crossing over at 80Hz for Dolbyu Digital, and should I leave the x-overs on my subs alone even with the change from "Digital" to "HPF/LPF"?

Sorry for all the questions, but I hate not knowing. Thanks guys!

That's how I believe it works. You could easily test it with a test tone disc.

The bass management switch only impacts how the 7.1 Direct input works, except for the special case of analog stereo bypass and the HPF/LPF position (assuming that my memory is worth a darn, something that I'm not entirely sure I'd bet money on today... ). It does not have any impact on digital audio inputs whatsoever. It also doesn't have any impact on stereo analog inputs for any situation other than bypass mode.

Yes. My sub is always engaged with the toggle set to HPF/LPF when listening in analog bypass mode on my 970.

I think I need to revisit my manual again, because while I appreciate having the clarity I'm experiencing at the moment, it's a little embarrassing. Thank you Gonk.

Looks like I have some playing around to do.

To expand on what gonk said, when the toggle is set to HPF/LPF, you'll get a simple, analog x-over on analog inputs played in bypass mode.

For everything outside of that (the 970's stereo mode, 5-channel mode and all the surround modes), now we're playing in the pre/pro's digital domain and the digital x-overs are employed. This means you can set the x-over points to other frequencies for the various speakers in your system.

Personally, I like a x-over setting of 80Hz across the board, so there is no issue with my system being out of calibration when going between the analog and digital bass management worlds.

I assume all of the above applies to your 1070.

My memory isn't the best these days either, but I'm not sure if this issue even is addressed in the manual. By that I mean there is the gerneal information about the 3-position switch and setting x-over points. Beyond that, I don't recall learning from the manual this set up option existed. I stumbled across it by accident working with gonk about a year ago.

I'll see if I can find the original thread.

Found it: http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/40/t/000111.html

WOW - a parallel thread. It was interesting to read through that and have all your discoveries match my own experience over the last couple days.

I went home last night, slid the 1070 out, and flipped the toggle to HPF/LPF. I was already using the CD input for my Denon player. Popped in the newer Beatles "Love" album, and I tell you I was in heaven. I was really digging the warmer, deeper sound with the subs.

Something I was a little surprised about - someone with more tech savvy than me could probably explain this - was that my "Channel Calibration" settings still worked. I thought that would be all digital. When I was thinking I was hearing a little too much boom, I went into the menu > Channel Calibration > Subwoofer ch. > and took it down to -1 dB. I was at 0 prior.

At that point I thought, wait, you're in bypass mode, that's probably only for digital. I turned the dB all the way down and definitely heard the subs quiet down. Any thoughts to share on this?

I really appreciate all the feedback here. It's been great to find new function on the 1070. Really does pay off huge dividends in this particular case. I need to go music shopping asap.

The sub trim should work as described on the HPF/LPF analog crossover. What should not work is the x-over point. It should remained fixed at 80Hz.

For me, this really opened up a whole new world of enjoyment with my 970 for two channel listening -- both on CD and vinyl. I think you'll find the preamp section of your 1070 is surprisingly transparent and really gets out of the way of the signal path. It also opens up a host of possibilites for addtional tweaks and upgrades for 2-channel performance. This includes the aforementioned outboard DAC option, as well as adding an outboard phono stage. Or if you've really got the upgrade bug, consider a finesse, two channel amp for your mains and hook it up to your L/R pre outputs.

Best,

- VD

You read my mind w/ the amp and turntable.

Unfortunately I'm out of space in my entertainment system (see below). The wife is open to replacing it with something that I can (stealthily) add components to, so I have to fix my little problem first...I already caught hell for stacking components (my Toshiba and Denon players) on TOP (god forbid) of the furniture.