http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005823.html

Its the Panasonic DMP-DB30. If you are in the market for BluRay, this looks like the one. HDMI 1.3, 5.1 Analog out, DD, DD+, DTS, DTS-HD, DTS-MA, Profile 1.1 with SD card. Outputs HDMI bitstream audio (although the disk probably wont let you, because the mixing is done in the player, not in an AV reciever.)

Tres0r

What do this mean? What mixing?

I've been doing a bit of reading about this player. It's the first standalone player I've seen that I feel like I might be willing to spend some money on.

Interesting thing about this player: they omitted any onboard decoding of TrueHD or DTS-HD (and possibly DD+). The player will be able to output the bitstreams for the new audio formats - I've even seen one review where someone was able to do just that with both TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio tracks. To do so, though, it will come at the expense of any interactive content that requires mixing audio streams. As this is a feature that seems to have been less used on Blu-ray than on HD-DVD, I'm not sure that it will be all that much of an issue. And in those rare cases where it is used, there will likely be a fall-back option of a legacy audio track such as Dolby Digital (which the player can decode internally) to use in conjunction with the secondary audio track. When trying to work through all the different scenarios in my mind, I decided that I'd be willing to step down to a core DD track for the movie if I was watching some bonus content that was going to distract from the movie itself anyway. If I'm listening to the lossless formats, I'm doing so specifically to watch the movie, not to listen to a commentary track alongside the movie.

Both HD formats have provisions for interactive content that allows two audio streams to be overlayed. The most obvious example for any HD-DVD owners is the menu structure on most of Universal's discs: a bar appears at the bottom of the screen and allows access to different features (audio settings, subtitle settings, scene selection, special features) while the movie plays in the background. These menus include audio cues (it beeps when you move the cursor), which are mixed in with the soundtrack for the movie. To achieve this, the soundtrack must be decoded internally so the player can add in the beeps. It then outputs multichannel PCM via HDMI, multichannel analog (if the player supports it), or it re-encodes the PCM to DTS and outputs via optical or coaxial digital. The XA2 is the first HD-DVD player to be HDMI v1.3 and (thanks to a firmware update recently) to support bitstream output of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, but if those bitstreams are output then the menu won't beep. There were reports very early on that in order to insure the interactive content would always worked, some or even all HD-DVD's were being authored with a flag that would prevent bitstream output and instead force internal decoding.

Gonk,
Here is a link to the review I think you were mentioning.
http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/panasonic-dmp-bd30-1275.shtml

Looks good!

Do you know if studios are still prohibiting bitstream output? Can the hardware override it?(prob not, im sure)

Yeah, that's the review I read. I don't know if Blu-ray discs ever prohibited bitstream output, as the only references I saw were to HD-DVD's. Even those references were bordering on rumor, since there was no way to test it without hardware that allowed bitstream output. Some time I'll have to go hunting for feedback from XA2 users who have tried to output TrueHD (or DTS-HD MA, although I don't know how many HD-DVD titles actually have DTS-HD MA content) to learn how it works and if there are any issues.

The screenshots in that review indicate that there is a setting in the BD30 to force it to disregard mixed content and output a bitstream ("BD-Video Secondary Audio: On/Off"). There is also a screen shot of a receiver's front panel actually reporting the new formats and decoding them, so clearly it works for at least some discs (and potentially for all discs, assuming that the secondary audio "off" mode doesn't run afoul of and lose out to some previously un-seen disc flag). Unfortunately, the review doesn't mention what discs were used for testing. It also doesn't mention load time for the newer, more Java-intensive titles like Pirates of the Caribbean - something that I'd be interested to know about considering how painfully slow those titles can load on other players.

Hey all,

Made the plunge and went with Bluray. Got a Samsung BDP-1400. Dedided not to wait for the Panasonic, because I have an Onkyo 797, and it cant do any decoding, while the Samsung can.

I connected it with analog outs, and it works great.Uncompressed PCM (native on disk), and DTS-HD work awesome (sent as PCM over analog outs).

The biggest thing I noticed is that bass information and output is MUCH, MUCH better. soundstage and image is more coherent, pushed back, and more transparent in the front.

Picture is very, very good. Picture was connected with HDMI. Like watching something on HD cable, but without compression artifacts with motion or fine details. Picture improvement was more subtle than the audio. SD upconversion was what I expected, basically a softer picture.

This player supports bitsteam output, DTS-MA is supported outboard with a FW update. DTS-HD,TRUHD,DD+ are decoded internally. I've had no issues at all, although there are updates for it.

Now all I need to do is wait for the 999! FWIW, I hear the Dave Matthews Bluray disk is a must buy for audiophiles. Im not the biggest fan, but I cant wait to see how it sounds.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/964/davematthews_liveatradiocity.html

If you go for the Panny, Gonk, I hope it works out for you. To me, it's just another unfinished Blu-ray hardware spec, full of compromise.

Like you, I've been watching for the Blu-ray player that appears to be configured like a real, final product. I still haven't found one. I could even deal with the inflated pricing, if they would just release a player that didn't seem as if it would be obsolete (or at least highly compromised) in six months.

What are you looking for the player to actually do? The only thing that I saw that I may not get is the lastest and greatest BD Java.. I think that most of the times the extras arent worth much anyway.

If you want full codec support, analog out, with bitstream, the Samsung and Panasonic players all offer these functions.

If you are talking about the manufacturers shipping incomplete devices, only to upgrade them later, then I think you are going to be disappointed, because I dont think this trend is going to change. I dont really like it either, but more and more computing power is required to get the products to work, and they are getting more and more complex, especially when artificial roadblocks like DRM are added.

The BD30 still won't ever be profile 2.0 (to use the old name - haven't figured all the new names out), as there is no network connection. That's the biggest compromise, and it is a bit unfortunate considering that HD-DVD's had internet connectivity since the very first player. The BD30 also doesn't decode TrueHD or DTS-HD internally, although I've mulled this one over and don't think that the repercussions of this bother me over much - if I'm using a feature that requires a secondary audio stream, I'm not concentrating on the primary audio stream anyway and can live without a lossless format.

I'm jumping into this thread kind of late, but it piqued my interest, as I'm trying to see what my options are for Blu Ray and/or HD-DVD...

So a question to gonk or anyone else:

What Blu Ray players are currently on the market that provide on-board DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD decoding and send it out via 5.1/7.1 analog outputs? If such a beast exists, it looks like I could hang on to my 970 for a while.