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#16849 - 06/20/07 06:49 PM Stereo Speaker Placement
KOYAAN Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
I'm currently using my HT room for both 7.1 and 2 channel listening , but I'm planning a seperate 2 channel listening area. In my set up now, My mains are about 9 feet apart in an equalateral triangle with the primary listening position as is the custom for multi-channel systems.
I seem to remember back if pre-prologic days that most stereo setups had the mains much closer togeather than that,but I can't find anything on 2 channel speaker placement.
I'm sure this will come down to tweaking to what sounds best once the equipment is in place, but for layout purposes does anyone have a rule of thumb for stereo speaker placement ?
_________________________
HT:
990/770
Oppo BD83SE
Pioneer Elite DV-47A
Magnavox HDMR513h DVR/DVD-R
Sony DVD megachangers-2
Sony CD megachangers-2
Monster power centers-2
Sony 48" rear projection SDTV
Roku video player
JVC AL-A158 Turntable
Polk RT-2000s,CS-650,XS-650s,RT80s
LFM-1EX
Hsu VTF-1
12" Velodyne

Family room:
OPPO 970
Sony 32" direct view HDTV
Denon 3801
Rolk RMs

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#16850 - 06/20/07 07:58 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
I think the equilateral triangle is a good place to start. What counts is the strength of the center image. If you hear two separated sources rather than a full-spread effect with the material you plan on listening to, move the speakers a bit closer together.

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#16851 - 06/21/07 02:36 AM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
I read someplace that the left and right in a pure stereo setup should be 85% of the distance from the primary listening position to the speaker. That said, psyprof1's suggestion and your earlier comments about tweaking are a good place to start. Have fun setting up your stereo room!
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#16852 - 06/21/07 10:53 AM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
KOYAAN Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
Thanks for the input !
_________________________
HT:
990/770
Oppo BD83SE
Pioneer Elite DV-47A
Magnavox HDMR513h DVR/DVD-R
Sony DVD megachangers-2
Sony CD megachangers-2
Monster power centers-2
Sony 48" rear projection SDTV
Roku video player
JVC AL-A158 Turntable
Polk RT-2000s,CS-650,XS-650s,RT80s
LFM-1EX
Hsu VTF-1
12" Velodyne

Family room:
OPPO 970
Sony 32" direct view HDTV
Denon 3801
Rolk RMs

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#16853 - 06/21/07 06:19 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
tmdlp Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 215
Loc: Big D, Tx
Koyaan,
Actually the place to start...
Left and right speakers 6 feet apart. the listener should be about 9 feet from the speakers.
Most people like to slightly toe in the speakers.
If the speakers are – say - 6 feet apart and the listener is closer than 6-7 feet – you will get the headphone affect. Some people like this – but it takes away from the imagining aspect of a speaker.
Have fun.
_________________________
later,
**************
Outlaw 990/7125, Oppo, Xbox 360, Paradigm (L/R/C), Polk (S), M&K Sub w/ SMS-1, Samsung LED-DLP HDTV, Signal Cable, Brickwall

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#16854 - 06/21/07 07:59 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
KOYAAN Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
Thanks tmdlp;
That's what I needed to know. I'm trying to come up with an envelop size for the listening area.
It sounds like anything over about 12x15 will do giving me adequate space on all sides to let things breath normally. This will be in the living room, so M'lady has some concerns as to the impact on the decore.
It's remarkable the amount of information you can find ( a lot of it conflicting) on surround speaker positioning when there is so little availabe for 2 channel.
I guess HT's where the market is.
_________________________
HT:
990/770
Oppo BD83SE
Pioneer Elite DV-47A
Magnavox HDMR513h DVR/DVD-R
Sony DVD megachangers-2
Sony CD megachangers-2
Monster power centers-2
Sony 48" rear projection SDTV
Roku video player
JVC AL-A158 Turntable
Polk RT-2000s,CS-650,XS-650s,RT80s
LFM-1EX
Hsu VTF-1
12" Velodyne

Family room:
OPPO 970
Sony 32" direct view HDTV
Denon 3801
Rolk RMs

Top
#16855 - 06/21/07 09:09 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
Videodrome Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 325
Loc: Fairfax Station, VA
I subscribe to the equilateral triangle set up as the starting point as well. Sometimes that's not practicable, based on your room, furniture, rear walls, etc.

So based on that, and with the risk of stating the obvious, here are a few tips...

Use a recording of a vocal that is known to be well anchored / mic'd to put the singer in the middle of the speakers.

Play around with towing the speakers in and out to see what effect it has on making the head of the singer appear smaller / tighter, or pulling it apart. You may find the degree of the speaker tows are not completely even to achieve the best effect. This can be due to room acoustics or differences between how acute your hearing is with your left vs. right ear (That may sound strange, but as an example, if you've ever hunted without hearing protection, the ear on your shooting side may be less acute.)

Once you've established a good center image, play around with a few recordings that have bigger soundstages (orchestral pieces, ambient / techno music, or just a good Pink Floyd album), and see if you have a good balance between center fill and soundstage width. Ideally, you should be able to close your eyes and point to sounds that seem to be coming from outside the boundaries of the left and right speakers. If you're not getting this, try towing back out, but not so much that you get the dreaded "hole in the middle."

Similarly, if you have the wiggle room, play around with placement relative to the rear wall and see how it does or does not crush the depth of the soundstage and affect bass response. One common mistake I see is that people put their speakers too close to the wall.

Repeat this process a few times using different recordings and types of music. In the end, you'll reach a set-up that represents a "best compromise" i.e. a commmon denominator of placement that strikes a balance between center fill and soundstage width.
_________________________
Outlaw 970
McCormack DNA-125 (mains), Emotiva LPA-1 (surrounds)
Quad 11L (F&C) Wharfedale (R) LFM1 (Sub) w/ SMS-1
Squeezebox -> Behringer SRC2496 -> Musiland MD10 DAC
Sota Sapphire; Marantz 10B;
Video: Hitachi 42HDS52A; Oppo 971H
System Pics

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#16856 - 06/21/07 09:56 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
loopy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 206
Loc: Central Ma.
Hi Koyaan, here is something I tried, I went to my local home depot and bought a laser level, I put it on top of my speaker in the center and toed speaker in or out according to where the beam of light was hitting my listening position.
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7125,Denon 2910,Toshiba A3, Klipsch RF35,RC35,RS35,RW12,SMS-1

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#16857 - 06/22/07 01:07 AM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
tmdlp Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 215
Loc: Big D, Tx
To add to Videodromes thoughts:
Anything under 6" from the back of the speaker to the wall is to close. electrostatic/Magnaplaners require feet behind them.
As an example, my paradigm's 60's are ~26" from the back wall to the back of the speaker.

The reason for a 3:2 ratio 'distance from': 'space between speakers' is to give a better sweet spot.

For a reference recording - I like to use King James - Harry James and his big band pressed by Sheffield Labs.
It is recorded in a church w/ one microphone. It is a live recording. A properly setup 2 channel system can discern every musician (left to right and front to back).
Pink Floyd is cool (Wall and Dark side of the Moon) - come to mind.

Telarc has several recordings that will work.

Have fun playin.....
_________________________
later,
**************
Outlaw 990/7125, Oppo, Xbox 360, Paradigm (L/R/C), Polk (S), M&K Sub w/ SMS-1, Samsung LED-DLP HDTV, Signal Cable, Brickwall

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#16858 - 06/22/07 03:17 PM Re: Stereo Speaker Placement
KOYAAN Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 358
Loc: Sanford NC
Thanks for your input guys.
I haven't made a speaker decision yet,but I'm leaning toward Strats Minis or possibly Outlaws if they have a tower available by the time I pull the string (I'd prefer not using a subwoffer, though that is an option). I expect to be able to hear some Minis next weekend at an AV123 get togeather.
Since the Minis are electrostatics, I expect they will require considerable back and side wall
clearance like the Maggies.
I expect to match these up with a 2180 and either a Rega Apollo CD player or an Onix CD-3. I understand the Rega is great, but I don't want to travel 600 miles to audition one.
I'll chime in again as this comes togeather or I need more consel and guidance.

Thanks for the help.
_________________________
HT:
990/770
Oppo BD83SE
Pioneer Elite DV-47A
Magnavox HDMR513h DVR/DVD-R
Sony DVD megachangers-2
Sony CD megachangers-2
Monster power centers-2
Sony 48" rear projection SDTV
Roku video player
JVC AL-A158 Turntable
Polk RT-2000s,CS-650,XS-650s,RT80s
LFM-1EX
Hsu VTF-1
12" Velodyne

Family room:
OPPO 970
Sony 32" direct view HDTV
Denon 3801
Rolk RMs

Top

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