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#16493 - 01/26/07 12:05 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
AvFan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 619
Loc: El Cajon, California
Red,

Yes, life with Outlaw is good! I really like looking at and listening to different speakers. I couldn't resist the urge a while back and upgraded every speaker except my sub. I have since read several articles that said what we hear from our HT is roughly 50% the equipment and 50% the sound's reaction to the room. Compromises must be made since most of us have our HTs in a family room or other multipurpose space. However, I decided not to spend more money on gear, and particularly speakers, until I had tried a few things.

First, I looked at speaker placement. My L & R were corner mounted and aimed at my listening position. I recently moved them towards my screen so they were 9'6" apart and 11 feet from my sofa. The difference was remarkable. I listen to a lot of stereo music and with the speakers closer together I got a very tight stereo image. With movies the sound from all three front speakers was virtually seamless. Second, I'm working on tasteful acoustic treatments that have a medium to high WAF.

Just my 2 cents...An inexpensive upgrade would be to place your current L & R on some temporary stands closer to your screen. If doing that alone adequately improves how your system sounds you could buy some nicer stands and save a bunch of money. If it improves the sound, but not enough for your liking then enjoy auditioning their replacements. In addition I'd consider buying a new center channel with the same tweeter(s) as the new L & R if they are replaced. Enjoy!
_________________________
AvFan
Outlaw 976 | ATI 2005 | M&K 850s Left, Center & Right, Surround-55s, MX-70B Sub | Harmony 950 remote | Panamax 5100 | OPPO UDP-203 | LG OLED55B7

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#16494 - 01/26/07 08:40 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
RedSIinPA Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Outside Phila.
well thankfully the B&W's are pretty noteworthy for voicematching across all their line ups (speaking generally.) I'm pretty confident that the center channel will match up very well with any of the towers I'm considering.

I think your temporary suggestion of relocating the fronts is a worthy weekend mini-project. I don't have anything lined up this weekend either. I'll post up what the result is smile
_________________________
Model 1070
Toshiba HD-A35 & Pioneer BDP-51
Tivo Series 3
Elite 50" / Aquos 32"
Squeezebox Radio

Stereo Setup:
NAD C326BEE (50Wx2)
Elite DV-47Ai Universal SACD/DVD-A
Citypulse DA7.2x II + TXCO DAC
B&W 685s
JL Fathom F112
Denon AH-D2000 Headphones


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#16495 - 01/30/07 01:45 PM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
Bill O Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Missouri
Upgrades?
I thought of upgrading from a hk635 to a 990, that was until I got my latest copy of Mapleshade catalog.
Quotes from Mapleshade
" Laying speaker cables on an artifiicial fiber carpet will imediatly dull the sound of your stereo" [ Triad speaker cable lifts, $12 per lift.]

"Just like speaker cables, the wires that hook your CD player to your amp can make as much or more difference than your speakers." [ Ultrathin Analog Ribbon Interconects-1 meter $120 ]

"If you are using an ordinary or hospital grade power strip-replacing it with our power strip is likely to be your system,s biggest sonic upgrade so far" [ Clearview AC Power Strip-$270 ]

" who would have thought three brass footers could transform the sound of each of your stereo components, I garantee exactly that "
[Three brass footers -$52 ]

"I've heard $2000 speakers with off the rack wires that sounded worse than little $100 Radio Shacks with good cables".[ Golden Helix Cable, 12' set-$115]

After thumbing through Mapleshades catalog, I realized, I realy don't need a new proccessor. Just by adding there upgrades I could increase my systems sonics by 150 per cent.
Then by luck I stumbled on "TheAudioCritic.com"
It is cheaper and less confussing to believe the audiocritic, plus he makes me feel better about myself.
What does the audio critic say, "using coat hangers for speaker wires sounds no different that big dollar speaker cable."( that saves me over $400 I have lots of coat hangers)
" Radio shack RCA cables sound no different than big dollar RCA cables."( ohhhhh that one alone saves me thousands)
" Power conditioners are BS" .( well here I must admit he's right from personal exspernce, I've been down that road. And although I had to convince my wife I can hear a difference, I can't)
I'm going to save thousands by believing the audio critic. Even if he's 1/2 right I'll save enough to buy the 990. If he's not, hell I only have 1 good ear anyway.

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#16496 - 01/30/07 02:05 PM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
Cybermynd Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Regina, Canada
LOL Bill O. I agree with slight caveats. I think the only thing that matters is how you, the owner/listener feels about the sound of your system. There are practical things you can do for not a lot of money. Sure the Nordost interconnects are absurd, the idea is to make sure you have a good, solid connection with good cables that don't cost more than your entire system.
It saddens me to read reviews of $1000 per metre cables that gush about the improved sonics. Maybe reviewer ears are just that much better than mine - I don't know. Wouldn't it be nice to have a set of Valhalla's around to swap with your 12AWG Home Depot specials? Good luck.
Now the caveat - there is a difference to be heard. My homemade Cat5 based speaker cables (which look awesome thank you very much) cost under $100 for the cables, sheathing and plugs. That and an hour of labour (while listening to music natch) created a couple of 15 foot cables that do indeed sound 'brighter' and/or more revealing than my 12AWG zip cords. I wouldn't have believed it either - I just think they look cool. But the DO sound different. Better? Don't know, some source material is better served with a dull cable.
The important things always make sense. A clean CD should sound better because of reduced error correction. A vibrating CD player is a bad thing for the same reason. Those things do seem to make sense so yeah - I'll spring for some $4 vibrapods and put $8 worth of spikes on my turntable stand and a $3 slab of marble on top of my DVD player. It's fun and part of the hobby.
Think rationally, spend wisely and have fun. That way you'll never find yourself attempting to connect your foot with your buttocks because your new $500 power cord doesn't really seem to help much.
_________________________
1070, Arcam CD73T, Pioneer DV46-AV, Project Xpression-Grado Red-NAD PP2, Monster HT1600, Wharfedale 8.3 Diamond, Mirage OM200 sub, Omnisat Micros x 5, homemade speaker cables, Dell Axim 51v remote

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#16497 - 01/30/07 02:42 PM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
RedSIinPA Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Outside Phila.
Bill O - you take the cake for the funniest post I've ever read on this site. It's true friend, I'm practically asking for help in blowing money. These guys pointed out what could be considered a glaring issue w/ my front B&W's. They're aiming right past my left and right shoulder by about 2-3 feet on either side of me. Now when I listen to music, I find myself moving in front of one, and in front of the other, to see if I can hear a major difference. My findings - I can't. I think I may be tone deaf or something. I know one thing. The setup makes people jump when I play explosive movie scenes. It makes me jump sometimes. The highs are so clear. The lows are incredible sounding. And I had this dumb teenage stoner smile on my face when I rocked my new Wolfmother CD last night. I know I can't speak audiophile, with all their proprietary adjectives. I don't hear things like that. And I won't try to act like I do. So I suppose, maybe I should just cool out and enjoy the ride. But then like Cybermynd says, this is a hobby, and hobbyists are never truly satisfied. I suppose I'm trying to find that listening skill - learn the language or at least think of how my system sounds in that language. Maybe it will come along. Maybe it's cheaper to let it go as it stands smile We always have to tinker with stuff. what to do, what to do...
_________________________
Model 1070
Toshiba HD-A35 & Pioneer BDP-51
Tivo Series 3
Elite 50" / Aquos 32"
Squeezebox Radio

Stereo Setup:
NAD C326BEE (50Wx2)
Elite DV-47Ai Universal SACD/DVD-A
Citypulse DA7.2x II + TXCO DAC
B&W 685s
JL Fathom F112
Denon AH-D2000 Headphones


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#16498 - 01/30/07 06:49 PM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
Bill O Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Missouri
It's encouraging to hear everyones kind words. I thought maybee it was just me.This is a great site, and I learn mucho by just reading posts here.
I know I'm no Phi Beta Capa. I'm starting to think because of that, my hearings not as good as the people reviewing Audio gear ( Stereophile)
On speakers: from that highly aclaimed catalouge
" Mapleshade"
" Nearly everybody sits to high, [The tweaters at ear level rule ] sounds logical but fails when tested. For a test, sit on one or two phone books: you'll hear an amazing new warmth and fulness in baritone voice, trombones, tenor sax, plucked bass-and far more nuetral treble balance"

OK , That sounds resonable till I read further.

Mapleshades-"Almost all speakers are on stands that are way to high ( 24' and up)- and all to often, too flimsy.Want to hear how much bass and warmth your speakers are losing? Try em on the floor, tilted back with a wood or metal block under the front. If you're on carpet, lay down a heavy plank or cutting board first See page 60 for even better sounding solutions."
I'm perplexed, to get my tweater above ear level and the woofer at ground level I have to dig a hole in my sitting area where my head is just above the floor. (This is a bad idea because my dogs would continualy lick my face). Whats my solution, oh it's on page 60.
Page 60
"Maple Bedrock Ultra 2 with standard brass footers: $570 per pair ."

This all leads me to the question; " where in the hell did Mapleshades get my address"?
Well I never got it untill I subscibed to Stereopile The nice thing is, I can read the stuff in Mapleshade and actualy be entertained by it's exotic claims.( and prices) When I read Stereophile, I simply feel unworthy.I wish I could walk with the " anointed" of stereophile, but I can't, I've only got a 12th grade public education which equates to a 4th grade reading level.
I'll keep Maypleshades and cancel Stereo"pile." Although I can't walk with the anointed, I can waller in the mud with the best of con men.
Tommarow is a big day for me, I place my order for the 990, Wife gave me the go ahead just now.

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#16499 - 01/31/07 01:20 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
AARONMADLER Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 169
Loc: Needham, MA
Bill O - Thanks for making me laugh out loud!
_________________________
Outlaw 990/7700, Oppo DV-981HD, Gallo S.A.Amp, Nucleus Ref. 3.1, AV C, AV M, TR-2, Paradigm Atom, Pioneer PDP-4214HD, Mtrola DCT6200/2005

Outlaw 990, Aragon 8008X3, 8008, Denon 3930CI, Dahlquist DQ20, Outlaw LFM-1+, Paradigm Atom, Mtrola DCT3416 I

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#16500 - 01/31/07 06:17 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
Bill O Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Missouri
Glad to help out .
I feel pretty good myself as I just ordered the 990 on line. Although I feel realy anxious to get it, hopefuly it will take a couple weeks to get here. That way my upgraditis desease won't start again for 2 weeks.It's kinda like a rash, but mental.There should be some type of Government program to treat it, I just haven't found it yet.

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#16501 - 01/31/07 07:40 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
laugh - I hear that somebody's coming out with a patch to help with it. Unfortunately it's credit card-shaped and is followed by a bill about a month later...
_________________________
gonk
HT Basics | HDMI FAQ | Pics | Remote Files | Art Show
Reviews: Index | 990 | speakers | BDP-93

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#16502 - 01/31/07 08:43 AM Re: what should my next upgrade be?
RedSIinPA Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Outside Phila.
If someone were to describe the user experience difference between a 990/7700 combo and using a 1070, what would that be?
_________________________
Model 1070
Toshiba HD-A35 & Pioneer BDP-51
Tivo Series 3
Elite 50" / Aquos 32"
Squeezebox Radio

Stereo Setup:
NAD C326BEE (50Wx2)
Elite DV-47Ai Universal SACD/DVD-A
Citypulse DA7.2x II + TXCO DAC
B&W 685s
JL Fathom F112
Denon AH-D2000 Headphones


Top
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