Why should I spend more than, say, $100 on a CD player if I am going to use digital output and a far more expensive DAC? bits are bits.

You probably shouldn't. I bought a factory reconditioned Denon DCM-380 5-disc CD player on ecost.com for about $70 and it works fine. It sounds excellent when I send coax digital to the 990.

http://www.msnusers.com/stereoandtruckphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=57

braggin rights.

i got a new denon-280 5 disc.been in for service 2 times(warranty).

I suggest using the the digital output of the cheaper CD player, and feeding it to your higher-quality DAC.

Some of the really cheap players introduce an annoying amount of jitter into the bitstream which can make things sound a bit shrill, even with a good outboard DAC.

If you listen to SACD or DVD-A, you'll also want a player with decent onboard DACs since you can't get those signals out of the player digitally.

Otherwise, I agree. Bits is bits. I spent a somewhat embarassing (in hindsight) amount having my DVD player modified by a specialty tweaker shop. They did the usual...upgraded the power supply, replaced all the cheapo caps with expensive "audiophile" replacements, put fancy WBT connectors on the outputs, installed an expensive low jitter clock...yadda yadda. Does it sound good? Yep. Does it sound better than it did before it was tweaked? I'm not so sure. Do I wish I still had that wad of cash around for something else more tangibly useful? You betcha.

If I was going to do things over today, I'd probably just pick up something like a Denon 2910 and call it a day.

Cheers,

Yeah, that is the inherent problem with SACD... I have a Denon 2200 DVD player right now and it does, IMO, a fantastic analog picture so it is certainly worth it, but once you have all digital video output (DVI) and all digital sound output, all you basically want is for the thing not to screw anything up and hope your TV and Preamp do their D/A job well.

Now if only my amp and speakers and room didn't screw up the freq. response curve so much, right?

Well bits is bits is a 'bit' of an oversimplification (sorry for the pun). There are 2 parts to digital serial streams, the data value (1 or 0) and timing. As others have mentioned jitter (timing) is the primary culprit in the CD digital world for bad sound. In reality as long as the digital data is there at the right time, then things are mostly equal.
Now having said that I believe it pays to get a good player mostly for the transport. I realize most laser pickups are made by 2 or 3 companies, but the software which does the tracking, motor control, drawer control, etc, is all different. I have ruined a few CD's on bad transports that caused the CD to shake and ended up scratching the CD.
Also important is the ability to do error correct which compensates for unreadable portions of the CD, stability of the clocks, etc.
I am oversimplyfying this a lot as there is much more that goes into getting the digital signal out of the CD.
Yes bits are bits but only when it comes to amplitude. Everything else can (and does)unfortunately vary.
My 2 cents worth is it pays to by good quality, but not go overboard.
Which is why be buy Outlaw products isn't it?

Hi

Im looking for suggestion for a cd player for
sacd & dvd-a. I have a good d2a but is sounds like it would not be used if I buy a player like this. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks Brad

If you don't mind a 5-disk changer, this one would be hard to beat for the price ($250):
Yamaha c750
Excellent DVD-A, SACD and CD performance. The only downside is that it's very slow at changing disks, powering on, etc.

For DVD-Audio SACD, you'll need a universal DVD player (both formats use some form of the DVD format, although SACD has the option for a CD layer). The only approved ways to get a digital output from these players are IEEE-1394 (also called firewire or iLink), HDMI (v1.1 for DVD-A, v1.2 for both), or a few proprietary solutions like DenonLink (although even Denon's approach wasn't approved for SACD until recently). Most of us rely on the player's onboard decoder and DAC's, using the 5.1 multichannel analog output (six analog cables) to connect to our receiver or processor.

Pioneer has done a lot with universal players, including some inexpensive (sub-$200) models as well as some really pricey stuff in their Elite line. Denon has a number of universals, ranging for around $500 to $3500. I am using a Yamaha (the DVD-S1500), which is only a mediocre DVD player (I use an Oppo for DVD video) but is a good DVD-Audio player and a fairly decent SACD player. Have you got a budget in mind? Also, have you looked at the catalogs of discs for both formats to see how much is available that you'd be interested in?

From what I have found at music sites there seems to be more sacd than dvda. I pulled out all of my manuals for equipment with the impending delivery of my 990 (which came last night) to deceide how i would interconect everything. Much to my suprise my Sony dvd player I bought 2years ago plays sacd. So for now I just need to cram some new wires into the equipment cabinet.

Thanks Brad