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#1482 - 03/05/02 09:22 PM Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
Thenotsonewguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 88
Loc: United States, Louisiana
As you know I have been looking into doing a DIY subwoofer project instead of just buying an already built sub. I will be able to get more bang for your buck and I heard DIY projects are kind of fun. Well, I'm almost ready to start, I have decided to go with Adire Audio since I have heard so many good things about them. Heck I even hear their subs sound good in a car as well as a home. Well, here is the main question, I also have a few sub questions but this is the main one. Their are so many different box designs out there I don't know which one to try. I was wondering if someone could tell me the rank of theses different box designs in SPL, SQ, and difficulty of building. Also I was wondering if you could tell me the pros and cons of each box.
Here is the list: sealed, ported, passive radiator, 4th order bandpass, 6th order bandpass, or vented (never seen this in a home only in mobile audio).

Note if I go passive radiator I will use Adire Audio's PR-15. The first three are the main ones I'm thinking of about trying, however I'm not to sure how the last three sound so that is why I asked, however I still might go with any of these designs.

Thanks for the help on that question now here are the sub questions. If you don't feel like answering these then don't bother it is up to you. However I would really like it if you could answer the main question above and the sub questions.

Well, really I don't know whether to go with the Shiva, Tempest, Maelstrom, or Brahma subwoofers form Adire Audio. Also if you decide which one of these subs you like then I was wondering if you would also suggest an amp from Adire Audio that you think would match the subwoofer you have selected. And if I go passive radiator like I said I will use the PR-15, to tell you the truth I don't really know if any passive radiator is different from another.

Also do you think I could use any of these Adire Audio kits they sell on their website?

Here is the website address: http://www.adireaudio.com

Thanks for reading and for the help,

Chris

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#1483 - 03/05/02 11:11 PM Re: Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
okc329 Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 25
Loc: St. Louis, MO USA
There is a set of electrical and mechanical parameters associated with each woofer model. These values determine whether that speaker should operate in a vented box or a sealed box. They also determine the optimal size for the enclosure in terms of volume and then there are some rules concerning the ratio of depth to width to height. Get yourself a good speaker design book, get the parameters for the woofer you are thinking about and get out your calculator as there are some equations to work thru. Lots of fun though!

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#1484 - 03/06/02 10:21 AM Re: Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
JasonA Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Marion, Iowa
I think you are on the right track here. The Adire products are very good. I'd still consider the Dayton subs from Parts Express. The same engineer designed most of the drivers for both companies (I believe they are all built by Eminence, by the way). Here's the deal with selecting the right driver. I'm not sure where you are planning on putting this sub, but the size of the box is often a limiting factor for some people. You may have a room to use this thing in that noone will care about, but maybe it's going in your parents living room. Maybe you plan on putting it in your dorm room. Bedrooms and dorm rooms tend to be a little on the small size, so having an enormous box sitting around may not be convenient. I think that just about every 15" or 18" sub out there is going to require a fairly large box, but will probably give you the most low bass output. A nice 10" or 12" sub can give you plenty of SPL in a smaller room like a bedroom or dorm room.

As okc329 mentioned, each driver has a bunch of electrical and mechanical parameters associated with it. Download a program called WinISD from www.linearteam.com. It's a fairly simple program to use. The drivers you are looking at might be in the database, but you may need to entere the T/S parameters if they are not. I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out. This program will allow you to model the response of the driver in different types and sizes of boxes. You'll learn alot by just messing around with it.

On to the differences in the box types. First, the sealed box is probably the easiest and most forgiving box type. The bass extension isn't quite as good as a ported box, but you'll typically have much better transient response (higher SQ). Sometimes you can run into excursion problems in sealed boxes at low frequencies, but most of the drivers you are looking at have high excursion capabilities, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue unless you plan to use a monster amp. I'd probably recommend a sealed box for any of the drivers you are looking at. Since this is your first project, you are much more likely to get good results with a sealed box. Also, if you put the sub in a corner, you can take advantage of room gain, which has the effect of boosting bass output. With a sealed design, you are likely to get a smoother in-room response, all the way down to 20Hz and below.

The ported box is slighly more complex to build, but not something that is completely out of reach. Using design software, it's fairly easy to get things right. The advantage of a ported box is that it allows a lower F3 point (i.e. better bass extension compared to a sealed box). This looks good on paper, but it's often hard to achieve with some of the drivers you've listed. The current trend in subs is to make them so they can play low and loud in a SMALL box. This is a tough thing for a ported sub, because as the internal volume of the box decreases, the length of the port increases to maintain a given tuning frequency. Also, the lower the tuning frequency, the longer the port. To avoid port "chuffing", you need a large diameter port. The larger diameter, the longer it needs to be. So you often run into problems where the port needs to be 3' long inside a box with dimensions of 14" square. This is where the passive radiator box comes in...

The passive radiator enclosure acts very much like a ported box, but uses atleast one other driver (usually without a motor structure). It is typically recommended that you use multiple PRs (mounted on opposite sides of the box) to balance out the internal pressure - basically to keep the box from shaking around. To tune a passive radiator, you add or subtract mass from the radiator cone. If you want to simulate a PR design, try downloading Unibox from http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdgroup.htm It's an Excel spreadsheet, so you'll need Excel. I'm not real familiar with PR design, but again, you should be able to figure it out. The PR design is good, but more expensive because you have to buy the passive radiators.

The bandpass boxes probably aren't a good idea. They are relatively difficult to build, and are the most sensitive to errors. Bandpass boxes require a tradeoff between effeciency and bandwidth. To play low, you are going to lose efficiency, and if you want the effeciency, you won't be able to go low. They are probably best suited for the trunk of your car when all you want is loud one-note bass.

To sum things up, I'd probably suggest a sealed box. You'll get plenty of extension, and have a simple box to build. If you don't like it, throw out the box and build a ported or PR version. MDF is cheap!

On to amps. The AVA250 would probably be a good choice. Keep in mind that it's the same amp Parts Express sells for $130. They make a big deal about their SURF filter, but it's really not a big deal. The PE amps don't have any bass boost built-in, so that's not a concern (you can add it if you want, though).

You might want to check out a couple of projects at http://members.rogers.com/viperoni/Audio/My15DVC/index.html and http://members.rogers.com/viperoni/Audio/NewTitDVCarchive/index.html

Let us know where you intend to use this sub, particularly the size of the room, and someone should be able to give you a better recommendation on which of the particular subs to use, and maybe suggest a box size that would work out well. Also, you might want to check at your local library and see if they have any speaker design books. The best is probably the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, by Vance Dickason. Lots of info in there.

Good luck
Jason

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#1485 - 03/09/02 01:58 PM Re: Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
Thenotsonewguy Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 88
Loc: United States, Louisiana
Well, Jason this is going to be put in my bedroom and the Width= is about 12ft 7inchs, Height=is about 6ft 10inchs, and Length=is about 13ft 4inchs.
I really want some good SPL figures from my subwoofer. I was really thinking of about going with the Tempest and I will use the HS 500 as an amp. I'm still thinking of about going with the Maelstrom but I think an 18 inch subwoofer will be over kill in my bedroom. Plus I'm on a budget so I don't think I could afford both the Maelstrom and a big amp that would be capable of powering the 18inch sub.

AUDIOPHILE ALL THE WAY

Chris

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#1486 - 03/10/02 04:07 PM Re: Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
JasonA Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Marion, Iowa
Chris,

Here's a quick simulation I did in WinISD comparing the Dayton 15" DVC and the Tempest. They model very similarly. The Tempest plays a little lower, but requires a bigger box to do so. As you can see, the vented box needs to be roughly twice the size of the sealed box.


http://diy2001.8m.com/cabinets/DVCvsTempest.jpg

In your room, you may be better off going with a sealed box. You'll start to get room gain as high as 175Hz. Although the sealed box may look less desirable on paper, it may actually sound "flatter" or more accurate in your room. Room gain is an interesting effect that is generated when a sound wave hits a wall or intersection. You will typically see a 12dB/octave increase (i.e. the SPL will increase 12dB each time the frequency is cut in half). I believe room gain starts kicking in at the half wavelength of the longest wall in the room. That would mean that at around 175Hz you will already be seeing a little gain. Sealed boxes roll off on the lower end at a 12dB/octave rate, so the room gain could potentially give you a flat response down to 20 Hz or lower. A vented box in that room might sound boomy or overkill. You'll also probably get a little tighter sound from the sealed box.

Also, in this room, you definitely wouldn't need to go any bigger than a 15". In fact, that may already be coming close to being overkill. With the 500 watt amp, you should be able to get 115dB fairly easily, which is definitely enough to cause nausea if endured for more than a few seconds!

Good luck
Jason



[This message has been edited by JasonA (edited March 11, 2002).]

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#1487 - 03/10/02 06:13 PM Re: Please help me, I just have a few DIY subwoofer questions left.
gonk Offline
Desperado

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 14054
Loc: Memphis, TN USA
My compliments to JasonA! Very nice work.

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Gonk
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gonk
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