For Christmas I am asking for a pre/pro. I love reading you guys advice and reviews over products. I find this to be bar none the best resource for all kinds of audio equpiment and even though you truely love Outlaw equipment, there seems to be no bias, at times even picking out the flaws. This is the reason I am going to ask this question here...

I have the option of getting a pre/pro for Christmas, which do you think is better for me to get? The Rotel RSP-1068 or the Outlaw 950. Also, is the Outlaw 950 getting replaced by a newer version soon?(should I hold out for the newer one?) What are the pros and cons when comparing the 2. I am also welcome to other pre/pro's you guys find worthy of the Outlaw and Rotel for its great price range. If you would like to continue on with suggestions on amps (770 vs. Rotel RMB-1075) I would be pleased!
What are some features that the Outlaw 950 does not have that you wish it did. And are the added features going ot be added on the "970" if that is what it is called...Thank you guys... I appreciate the time.

The choice for me came down mainly to the bass management on the analog 5.1 ins on the two units. I also replaced my disc player with a Denon 3910 that has complete bass management for DVD-A and SACD. The Rotel 1068 allows for a true direct input with no bass management while the Outlaw 950 does not and has the so-called double-bass issue. I will not get into a debate about whether this is really a problem or not, but the ability of the Rotel to disable the bass management was a feature for me. In addition, the 1068 also has some usability features such as renameable inputs that are nice.

However, be aware that the price differential between the two units is significant. First the street price of the 1068 is more than twice the current price of the 950 ($699). Further, the 1068 does not include an FM tuner, so if FM radio is important to you you will need an outboard tuner for that. I purchased a used Rotel 1080 tuner since it matches well with the 1068, is a quality unit and has a high WAF but adds another $300+ to the final price.

As to which unit sounds the best with HT and stereo sources I can not speak to since I have not compared the two pre-pro's in my system.

Outlaw is coming out with a big brother to the 950, but that unit does not appear to be close to release and will be priced considerably higher than the 950.

As far as amplification, I currently have a 5.1 set-up and use 5 Outlaw M-200's for amplification. I am quite happy with them and have no plans to change them out any time soon.

I haven't heard the RSP-1068 in my system, but I have a co-worker who has one. He needed a good bit of help getting it set up and running, so I got a chance to mess around with it. As morphsci has said, there are a few additional features (renameable inputs, Pro Logic IIx) - I suspect all of the 1068's extras will be in Outlaw's future pre/pro plus some, but it's still a ways off. The 1068 remote is not nearly as user-friendly as the rebadged SL9000 provided with the 950 - I convinced my co-worker to buy an MX-500 after a series of headaches and problems. The 1068 menu offers a bit more control, but the manual is dreadful. It drove me nuts, and my co-worker (who had no background with home theater gear) was completely lost.

The RMB-1075 is a pretty solid looking amp, but I think the 755 is certainly its equal sonically (plus offering more power per channel). The 770 will give you more power and more channels. The 7100 offers only slightly less power per channel as well as two extra channels, so depending on your needs it might also be a good candidate. I'm using a recently-added pair of M200's to drive my mains (which has worked out extremely well) and a Model 750 to drive the center and surrounds.

How do the two compare sonically? It's difficult for me to say - I heard the 1068 with a different amp (1075 vs. my Outlaw Model 750), different speakers (Nautilus 805's vs. my Paradigm Studios), different source (Sony DVD player and Meridian CD player vs. the Panasonic DVD player I was using at the time), and different rooms. My wife and I preferred our system's sound (the Rotel setup came across as harsher and a bit fatiguing), but since I never heard the system when it was using the Spectral pre-amp and amp that he had used previously I don't know if that was the speakers, source, or room (which was a pretty hard space). My wife cast a vote firmly in favor of the 950 at the end of the day, as she felt that it offered a better interface and she liked our system's sound more. My co-worker decided at the end of the installation that he probably should have simply called Outlaw for a 950/755, partly because he felt my system sounded comparable to his and partly because he was unimpressed with the service he got from his Rotel dealer (a dealer he's been working with for 20 years).

I have to concur with Gonk about the 1068's manual and remote.

The remote is not really bad and not really good. I's functional at best. The remote packaged with my Outlaw 1050 was superior IMO. However, that was not a real concern for me since I was already using an MX-500 remote. (Which by the way is a great remote and currently a great value).

The manual is not quite the worst I have ever seen but it certainly is in the top 10. Again, the manual that Outlaw provided with my 1050 was much superior. I did not have a difficult time setting up the 1068 but that was because I really did not need to use the manual since I am now pretty familiar with setting up multichannel systems.

I was on the fence for quite a while in deciding between the two units and finally just decided on the Rotel. It really is personal opinion and you may want to listen to both units, if possible. I feel confident that I would have been happy with the 950 in my system (especially with the extra $ for music and movies ) since I am sure I will start to feel the itch to upgrade in the future. I am pretty sure that my upgraditis will be at least slightly postponed with the 1068 compared to the 950 but will depend on Rotel's ability to release timely software upgrades as needed.

Also, be aware that many users of the 950, 1066 and 1068 noted that the character of their systems changed after some period of "break-in". (Again, I do not want to get into an arguement about whether the pre-pro or the user are breaking in.) I would just suggest you not make a quick decision based upon a short audition.

I am currently using a 950 and a Rotel 1075 amp. My Rotel dealer gave me a killer price on the 1075 and I was using my Onkyo receiver as a pre/pro. I found a buyer for the receiver and had to go pre/pro shopping. I ended up wanting to listen to the Rotel 1068 and 950 mainly because they were the only pre/pros that landed within my budget. So I did audition the 950 and 1068 pre/pro side by side and I finally decided on the 950 for several reasons. But ultimately I thought the 950 just sounded better.

I was originally interested in the 1068 because it was upgradable, had PLIIx, and seemed to be the perfect match for my 1075 amp. The 1068 that I was auditioning was slightly back level in software and as a result I experienced some bugs that have all been resolved in newer code. I agree with Gonk regarding the harsh or overly bright sound of the 1068. I was very surprised about this. I really thought that this was going to be the perfect match for my 1075 amp and B&W speakers. Not so. I'm not a big advocate of "break-in" periods, but I wanted to give the thing a fair shot so I let it play for about 3 days straight. No change in sound at all.

I don't necessarily agree with the comments about the 1068's manual and remote. Being a geek, I spent a lot of time going over the manual before I got the 1068 in my house. Setup of the 1068 was, imo, very straight forward and provided more options than the 950. I think the remote is superior to the remote supplied with the 950. But this was never part of the audition as I already owned a universal remote that I was happy with.

Enter the 950. At first I was hesitant to order it. I was worried that it was getting "dated"; I was concerned about the limited 45mhz bandwidth component video switching; lack of upgradability was also an issue. But based on what I read here and reviews on other sites, I bit the bullet.

Out of the box the 950 sounded better than the 1068 ever did. And this was before I tweaked it for my setup. I am still amazed how good this thing sounds.

At first I was thinking that the comp. video switching was screwing with my picture, but after swapping the 1068 back in and out, I realized that there really wasn't any difference at all. So the component video switching turned out to be a non-issue, and since I'll soon be getting a Denon 2910 DVD player with HDMI output, I'll stop using the 950 for video switching altogether.

So in the end, I have no regrets going with the 950. The Rotel is a nice unit. I guess it just didn't fit in my system. (Still not sure I understand that one.) So I saved a lot of cash and endedup with a better sounding system. I love it.


Later,
Scott

Thank you guyes very much for the input and stories.. If I order the 950/770 combo what wires would i need to order from outlaw (or wherever sells quality, good priced cables) to get the 950/770 up and running? Also, which speaker wire do you guys recommend for speakers. My speakers accept banana plugs/biwiring etc.) Thanks again....

Keep in mind when you use the bass management in the Denon, it converts the SACD DSD to PCM. Some would argue the benefits of SACD is the DSD technology, so by converting it to PCM you sort of defeat the purpose. That's why I (as a Denon 5900 owner) prefer using the Outlaw's analog bass management over the Denon's. Does the DSD to PCM conversion make any difference in sound quality?.....probably not much if any. It's a piece of mind thing for me I guess.

You'll need analog interconnects from the 950 to the 770 - if you go with Outlaw, you'll want the PCA's, enough to connect every channel you'll be using (the 770 has seven channels, but if you only have five speakers currently you only need to hook up five channels).

I use a mix of banana plugs and spades - spades for the speakers I bi-wire (mains and center), bananas for the surrounds.

Whether a component sounds harsh and bright or has an extended top end is ultimately system dependent, especially in regards to speakers and your room as well as personal preference.

With my speakers (currently Wharfedales) and most sources I do not notice any harshness or brightness. On the contrary, with both stereo and 5.1 bypass the system sounds very smooth but especially with 5.1 bypass and SACD recordings the top end sounds much more extended compared to my previous set-up (1050 as pre/pro and Philips 963a disc player). Whether it is a function of the pre-pro, disc player or both is unclear since I replaced both units at once (No way I was going to keep them in their boxes )

I also did not notice a huge change over time (only about 2 weeks) but it was not bright or harsh to begin with (in my system).

The manual for the 1068 just seems to be puposely obtuse compared to the outlaw manuals I have seen. It seems to purposely explain things in an unneccesarily complicated way. Just MO.

That's interesting because I did not see anything in the 3910 manual about converting the DSD to PCM. Can you provide a reference to that for me? Thanks.

In either case, I prefer the sound with the bass management and time alignment in the Denon and direct bypass on the Rotel compared to any of the other permutations I tried. That does not mean that I would not have preferred a different combination with the 950, but in that case a true direct bypass is not available.