I was at my local Best Buy the other day looking at the plasma TV’s and minding my own business when from out of no where comes this pimple faced eager young sales kid looking to make a sale. I was surprised to find that he “new something” about the products they sell so we started talking about Home Theater Systems. I told him about my RPTV and pointed out the DVD player that I had bought there a few months ago the Pioneer DV-563a. He said his friend had the same player and that he liked the way SACD and DVD-A sounded. He asked what other equipment I had so I told him about my Outlaw 950/7100 combo. As I expected he said he never heard of them. I went on to tell him about the Outlaw products and gave him the web site so he could check them out for himself. That’s when it happened. He said he was saving his money up for a really top of the line system. Of course I asked him what he planed to spend his savings on. His next words made me wince with pain. He smiled and said a Bose lifestyle system. Now please understand I am not a mean person by nature but before I could stop myself I said “I wouldn’t own a Bose P.O.S if someone gave it to me” The poor kid just stood there looking up at me with those big Doe in the headlights eyes like I just ran over his puppy I felt so bad that all I could think to say was thanks for your help as I headed for the door. Does this make me a bad Outlaw? Anyone else ever have something like this happen to them? Come on guys I need some moral support here.

Lasher

Don't feel too bad, Lasher. Consider it your small-scale "public service announcement" for the week. Maybe it will make the guy start doing some shopping around and discover what alternatives are available -- Axiom, Paradigm, Boston Acoustics, Klipsch, Energy, Polk, Definitive Technology, Atlantic Technology, M&K, B&W, ... You might have given him the push he needed to change direction.

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gonk -- 950 Review | LFM-1 Review | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | Saloon Links

Don't feel bad Lasher, because you may have helped put the kid on a better path for getting much more than he would have, with his hard earned money. I've had what you did happen to me, and the only real lasting effect it had was it got me thinking. However having done the Bose scene years back, I can say at the time it was a good fit, because small apartments lend themselves to the Bose lifestyle option. They won't crank up enough to get evicted! In hindsite though, I would have wasted much less money buying good amps, and limiting the volume, because good amps are timeless! Bose are always destined to be upgraded later. Just my opinion!

Eh, he'll be fine when he starts his research. Many people are shocked to learn that Bose isn't all that great. Their stereo speakers aren't all that bad, but they have to suffer from Bose's reputation with the Acoustimass and Lifestyle systems. Those things are so ridiculously expensive. Sometimes reality checks hurt.

As background, I was looking at the thread about 7.1 Placement Help with its link to harmon white paper and then came here.

Now for possibly a real stupid question. How would a pair of Bose 901's work for rear or side surround speakers? I always was going to disagree with JT's comments as hated these speakers for stereo because I could never localize the image. But in reflection (pun intended) I was wondering if they might be perfect for the rear or sides.

[This message has been edited by 73Bruin (edited June 07, 2004).]

I think you did that kid a great service, he'll thank you later in life, plus he'll be able to brag to all his buddies at Best Buy by broadening his horizons beyond what they sell there....not that everything they sell there is crap, but there's alot more out there.....good job Lasher

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DN

Bose,doesn't that leave a bad taste in your mouth saying it?

I can sympathize with you, they don't call me MeanGene for nothing. There are sometimes when discretion is the better part of valor. With that in mind, my I make a few suggestions.

The ever popular - "That's Amazing"

"I hear that Bose has a great marketing department"

"What did you compare them to?"

"Somethimes form IS more important that function"

Oh fooey, I can't go on....

Tell him you have heard better sound from a computer setup.

Lots of luxury and near luxury car owners apparently agree with the kid about Bose. According to Edmunds (reported here ) the top automotive sound systems are as follows:

Top 10 over $30,000:

Acura TL (Panasonic)
Cadillac SRX (Bose)
Hummer H1 (Monsoon by Delphi)
Infiniti Q45 (Bose)
Land Rover Range Rover (Harman Kardon)
Lexus LS 430 (Mark Levinson)
Lincoln LS (THX)
Mercedes S500 (Bose)
Porsche 911 Cabriolet and Boxster (Bose)
Volvo S80 (Dolby Pro Logic)

Top 10 under $30,000:

Audi A4 (Bose)
Ford Focus (Visteon)
Ford Mustang GT (Visteon)
Mini Cooper (Harman Kardon)
Mitsubishi Galant (Infinity)
Nissan Altima (Bose)
Nissan Pathfinder (Bose)
Nissan Sentra SE-R (Rockford-Fosgate)
Scion xA and xB (Pioneer with Bazooka subwoofer)
Volkswagen Passat (Monsoon by Delphi)

Note that Cadillac SRX, Infiniti Q45, Mercedes S500, Porsche 911 Cabriolet and Boxster, Audi, Nissan Altima and Pathfinder feature, you guessed it, Bose.

You can see the full report on Edmund's Top 10 Sound Systems in Cars Over $30,000 for 2004 here , and the Top 10 Sound Systems in Cars Under $30,000 for 2004 here .


[This message has been edited by Will (edited June 07, 2004).]

Bose does make some fine sounding CAR systems.............

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DN

Go to a car audio forum and say that.

jt can comment on how good bose is, he uses them currently....

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This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.

as someone who used to sell audio/video products including BOSE, i always just politely smiled and said yeah they are convenient when someone commented how great BOSE was. now if they ever tried to compare BOSE with another speaker directly and still said they thought the BOSE was better was when i had to just smile and say nothing... not to mention that the lifesytle systems are very prone to problems with the dvd player. however the 321 usually is the best selling htib in the country!

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This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.

at least the kid ran you off before you wasted your money on a plasma...

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This post has been brought to you by curegeorg, thanks for reading.

Regarding factory-installed audio in a vehicle: I’m sure the auto makers were primarily concerned with audio quality and hardly cared at all about marketing.

Can anyone say, “marketing?”

The percentage that Bose garners in automobile is once again a testament to their marketing department and the reputation among the average consumer, deserved or not.

A lot of car salesmanship is based on giving the consumer a good feeling, regardless of whether or not there is real substance to back it up. I’m not trying to put down all car sales people from the home office through to the local dealer. (I’d rather talk to the designers, engineers and builders.) But if I can hardly rely on the marketing and sales team for truly accurate information about vehicles, why would I rely on their judgement about audio?

Well I'm glad no one considers me a brute My guess is he went and told his buddies at BB what I said and they told him I was just some jerk who didn't know what I was talking about. Curegeorg I was just looking at the plasma's but my RPTV makes me happy. If I ever did upgrade it would be to front projection. I wish I had a dollar for every $100,000 Bose spent on marketing. I'd retire

Lasher

No kidding. There is no reason for their car setups to sounds worlds better than their HT setups. Look at the people giving those setups high marks. It's the same guys that praise the HT stuff so much.

Will:

While the list of OEM car systems sounds (no pun intended) interesting, did it ever occur to you that since the audio system is tied to the car's purchase there may be just a small list of other reasons why people buy the cars. Perhaps at the end of teh day it might be a deal maker or breaker. Or, at the start of the sale it might be what brings a customer into the showroom. However, it is hard to believe that people are rushing to buy Acura TLs because of the great sounding Panasonic sound system. Certainlly, people who buy Hummer H1s may have other things on their minds besides the earth-pounding sound of the Monsoon sound system. (One has to wonder what percentage of THOSEE are immediately ripped out and replaced with after-market systems that cost more than some of the cars in the second half of the list!)

My limited exposure to cars (only when they take me to the vet -- or even worse, to get groomed!) may not be of much value, but even us doggies know that while some of the OEM systems DO sound good (Levison in Lexus, for example), others are, well, decent quality, but not comperable to a good aftermarket system.

But what do I know, I'm only a dog!

ARF ARF, says Iggy

The Marc Levinson setup in the Lexus is the only one of any of those I hear come up. Well that and an Aston Martin setup that's supposed to be unreal. Don't bother bringing up the sub 30k cars.

According to this the 2004 Acura TL pushes the auto sound envelope! It's got DVD-Audio, is Bluetooth equipped, and the control is the LCD screen on the navigational display!

Now, doggone it, Iggy it just doesn't get much better than that in 2004!

Will

I saw one of the TL's the other day and noted, beyond the normal speaker compliment, the center speaker in the dash and center mounted sub in the rear deck. Wondering if there are quasi-surround modes for 2-channel sources? Anyway, I put my panting tongue back in my mouth and went on my way.

Why don't we have a smilie that would be triggered by :drool: ?

My Bose 901s were an entree into "high-end" audiophilia 25 years ago. They were supposed to simulate the reflected sound you'd hear in a concert hall. I have, on occasion actually turned them around (with the 8 speakers facing forward) for a more focused sound. Now, my critical listening is through five Mackie 824s and an lfm-1.

Re: Using the 901s for surround. I think you might have some difficulty wiring the things since the dedicated equalizer must be used with 'em. It would be interesting to hear how things go with your proposal.

Jay

How about this for unreal.
Enzo, the latest and hottest of Ferrari ($ 650k plus) does not come with audio system. Why? They say the driver of a car like that would rather listen to the sound of engine. Hmmm, must be some sound. I know what it sound like form the outside but from the driver’s seat, I can only imagine…

I can believe that. It does make some sense. That car is meant for driving, and driving FAST. Aston Martins are very fast and are supposed to be more luxurious. A $32k Subaru WRX STi didn't have a stereo as standard equipment for the same reason. That and the monster weight savings.

JMS, why would it be so much more difficult? I could see problems with a receiver, but with a separate amp setup the eq would just go on the corresponding channels wouldn't it?

I’m not sure how much sense it makes to have such a fine audio system for cars. First, just about in every car on the road, may be except for Rolls Royce, there will be all kinds of noise other than music you play (engine, wind, traffic outside). Perhaps it’s not a place for high quality audio gear as much as a dedicated listening room.

Turn the volume up and install some sound deadening. There is definitely some work involved with that, but it can be done. Will it be as quiet as the room? No, but it can be quite nice. If anyone's interested I can let you know how it works on the floor after I get that done. I can't hear any amount of rain falling on the roof anymore. Not much I can do about the windshield though.

I have yet to install a stereo in my car and I love the sound of the motor (I’d need quite a stereo to drown out the sound) here is a link to my other hobby. www.plymouthroadrunner.freeservers.com How’s that for music to your ears?

Lasher

How 'bout a pushbutton AM radio for a 30 year old Plymouth.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited June 09, 2004).]

You're making me nostalgic for my first car at age 16......a '68 Charger R/T 440 Magnum

The kid has so much of his life ahead of him. Nostalgia, perhaps looking back, there was a whiff of jealousy.