Yes series... I realized that mistake last night...

Alright.. just watched the exploding deeping wall a couple of times and played with settings on the sub amp.. if I use the crossover and add a couple of db at 18hz the clipping light will flicker when the wall explodes only... if I don't use the eq the clipping "warning" light comes on but doesn't actually clip..

this is with the 950 at -13db and the sub trim at -3 and the sub volume control at half...

the system is calibrated currently for 75 db

so.. 500 watts is probably right at the minimum of what I need for the box it's in

So.. now I'm off to watch T3 again

[This message has been edited by Unferth (edited May 28, 2004).]

oh, so you FEEL that the specs about xmax, and all that other stuff are important to seeing if a sub is good or not? i would say that linear excursion is pretty low on my list of qualities that make a sub LOOK like it would be good.

So you don't care at all about distortion?

tell me how linear excursion is directly related to distortion?

The more the excursion, the more the distortion. The better subs will have more control of themselves at the higher excursion. That is, they have a larger linear region. One way of looking at xmax is where the sub goes from linear to non-linear. Also known as where the distortion becomes audible. Hearing this exact point varies from person to person, but there is a generally accepted measurement that extrememly few may be able to detect it below.

IIRC, it's necessary to have 4 times the displacement to create a frequency an octave down. So bass, especially the bottom end, takes a lot of displacement.

There is some more, but I'm not sure if I can explain it without getting technical. If you keep popping specific questions, I may be able to avoid that. I'll explain what I can.

you are saying two different things here. excursion does not CAUSE distortion and really by itself does nothing negative at all to the sound, it is, as you said, at the point where the movement becomes non-linear that distortion occurs. one would argue that if there was no point (or so small as not to be detected) of non-linearity, you could have any amount of excursion that you wished. you could have an excursion of 1 foot and it could have as much distortion as 0.1 inches if it is controlled correctly.

the reason why subs need to have large excursions in the first place is to move more air, which is i guess what you were saying in that 2nd paragraph.

to say that more excursion means more distortion is not true, because while it could, if controlled properly it will not. good subs control the movement well, while others do not.

my post about something needed for a good sub was servo control. servo control (which i explained above) basically negates any artifical output of the sub and keeps the movement along a linear path so as to minimize distortion. that is obviously watered down, but as you can imagine it makes a big difference.

its good to read up and find out a lot of cool stuff, but make sure you know how to apply it and what it means.

.

Effectiveness varies. The higher grade subs can control themselves better at the higher excursion levels. That's part of what makes them better. The amount of distortion present at any given excursion will be different (slighty or very) for most every sub.

[This message has been edited by JT Clark (edited May 30, 2004).]

it is not surprising that m&k defends their claim that about why they dont use servos. im sure that velodyne knows what they are doing or they wouldnt waste their time putting it in there. their sub would still be awesome without servo control, and if they thought for one millisecond that it would negatively impact the sound it would not be in their subs.

i guess this could boil down to my theory is better than your theory, and we are sticking by our engineering...

i myself have used servo (type of logic as well as actual applications of mechanical devices) in several manufacturing applications and from my experience they only make a product better by analyzing and then feeding back info that is pertinent to making a better product. but of course this has nothing to do with sound quality...

you cannot argue with one fact, velodyne has extremely low distortion throughout the spectrum of audio it is playing back and at any play back level.

m&k is well respected as well though, i dont think as much so with subwoofer manufacturing, but they do make good products. for them to claim that their subs will be more musical than one with a servo integrated device is pretty arrogant, but naturally they are trying to sell expensive gear to the masses so they will always say their ideas are best.

i dont know what other companies use servo control in their subwoofers, but id be interested as to which ones do. also i know that several amp makers use negative feedback to overcome feedback pushed back by the speakers, and that their are advantages and disadvantages to that approach.

i would put my sub (18in) in competition with any other sub, and im sure it is well above any except for some one offs or ungodly ridiculous priced ones.

anyway, i know you are happy with your m&ks wayne, and i am with my velodynes. once there is a new top dog on the market i wouldnt think twice about giving another brand a shot, but to this day i have not found one from any other brand...

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