I was over at AVS the other day and saw a new post. This guy was a newbe and said he had $1500 to spend on new gear. He said he wanted to do a 5.1 system and power 2 speakers in a separate room. I recommended the 950/7100 and told him how satisfied I was with mine. I was shocked at the several post that followed. I was told I was trying to push him to buy Outlaw just because I own it, when he could do so much better with a new Receiver and used amp. I started looking around and this seems to be the new “thing to do”. No one even recommends Pre/Pro’s anymore? For that matter they don’t even recommend Receivers by themselves anymore. It’s all the same in every thread. Receiver with a separate power amp is the way to go. Am I the only one seeing this? I’ll be the first to admit today's receivers have came a long way and usually get the newest features first but I still don’t believe even with a separate amp that they compare to a dedicated Pre/Pro for sound quality. Not to my ears anyway. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Lasher

Probably just the fad of the moment at AVS.

In the several years of trolling home theater and audio forums online, I've discovered that a lot of the folks who think they're experts on these sites really don't know as much as they think they do.

My presumptuous guess (without going over there to check it out) is that some of the folks promoting receiver + amp are doing so to get the latest/bestest Dolby decoding scheme/scam which isn't yet available on a dedicated pre/pro.

Fine. Let them.

My take is that bob's guess is close. gonk kind of summed it up nicely in another thread. Many of the more mainstream companies (such as Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, etc...) have much shorter product cycles so they have new stuff coming out more often. These same companies also don't really do much with pre/pros, if they do anything at all. They'll have things like USB and firewire added in too. Other little knicknacks like that.

What really gets me is the amp recommendation on top of the receiver. I don't fully get that. Are those little extra features worth the extra cost of the receiver plus the extra $800+ for the amp? This really comes into play when speakers are not 8 ohms. Not all these receivers can play below 8 ohms, so they are in trouble. That is a LOT of extra money we're talking about. I just don't feel the need.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm far more interested in the pure sound of the unit. I just don't get why all those other little trinkets are so important.

Yeah, I've seen this lately as well. It's very prevelant on the web especially because of one particular website. I'm not going to name anyone but they've been recomending for awhile that for the price range; an entry-level receiver with pre-outs is a better deal than the lower level pre/pros. They also complain about the poor software design of the 950 among other things.

I think it's a little sad for them to advise this as it turns people away from even looking at a product that may fit their needs. Almost any 950 user on this board would agree that although it has its quirks, it does what it's asked to do quickly and cleanly. That should more than suit most people's home theater needs.

Ah well, it's Bose for everyone.

Using a receiver for it's front end only does seem like a huge waste. I guess if somebody just has to have the DSP-scheme-of-the-week, it's their money. Frankly, just setting up the room correctly and eliminating all the clutter around the speakers that effects dispersion and imaging would yield more improvement than most people think.

I can understand the recommendations. You can buy the latest Yamaha RX-V750 for the street price of $450. I has all of the new whirly-gigs including 7.1, IIx, video conversion to component and a auto speaker setup, with microphone included. It is an easy way to get into separates, using a high quality power amp, while waiting for pre/pros to catch up. A pre/pro must be easily upgradeable to compete with this receiver phenom, IMO. Another side benefit is to use the receiver amp section for other zones. I would be suprised if the majority of people could tell the difference in sound between rx-amp and prepro-amp in a blind test. At $450, the receiver is throw-away when the next "fad" comes along.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this When I finished reading those responses at AVS I was left with the feeling I had told the guy to go out and buy a Bose Lifestyle system........OUCH!!! I think Outlaw should get a little more respect than that

Lasher

Calling the 950's technology dated is ridiculous. The model is older, but that in no way means the sound is diminished. If you do something right it will last a long time. How old is Dolby Digital and DTS format? I'm under the impression that the newer 6.1, 7.1, (etc...) formats are spins of those.

I recently purchased a brand new CD receiver for my car that has a model year begining with "19", IIRC. It has no bells and whistles, but you would have to do quite a bit of searching around to find something better as far as clean sound is concerned.

Audio should be hearing is believing, not seeing.

I can at least understand why some would opt for a receiver over separates, since I almost make that choice myself a few years ago. I was looking for features at the time (including a large number of inputs etc.) to step up from a Denon Pro Logic integrated amp that I was using. What I really wanted was all of the features that the new receivers of the day were offering - without the power amp sections, since I already had enough channels of power amps kicking around. I contacted Denon and Yamaha and others and none of them had any plans for a pre-pro matching their receivers - with but few exceptions. Since I also liked what Marantz' receivers had to offer, and because they did sell a fully-loaded pre-pro with features to match, I went that route. A couple of years later I bought a 950 (again based on its additional features) - and have never regretted it. But I was at least tempted to go the other way, way back when.

Mind you having both a receiver AND separate power amps would be just plain goofy. Either - or. Not both.

Jeff Mackwood

if you cannot seriously look at the differences between a receiver and a pre/pro and make decisions on to what is more important to you, then you shouldnt be buying anything at all. i, for one, read avs sometimes, but i dont really care for its setup. plus WAY too many idiots. coincidentally enough i just got the denon avr-3805 and use it as a pre/pro for my main theatre and use its multiroom outs for others. i have talked about this before... technology is what is driving audio right now, so to jump on board with a product that is already one or two steps behind is disappointing and unfulfilling, especially when it turns into one or two steps into the grave and you want to upgrade again. i dont proport that a pre/pro or a receiver is better than the other just in general terms. each one should be evaluated on its own qualities and attributes. to say that one is always better than the other is absurd, and just foolish. everyone shouldnt run out and get a receiver (to use as pre/pro), nor should they a pre/pro just to say that that is what they have. look around, see what is available and pick what best fits your needs. i personally really like the idea of having my processing seperated from my power completely, but i couldnt find any pre/pro that i felt had qualities that outweighed the 3805s. not in its price range at least. some people get stuck on the logic that it has been this way forever and it is going to remain this way forever, but times they are a changing and so you should always be willing to reconsider your perspective. i think a lot of audio people get stuck on what THEY like and expect others to like the same thing, i probably dont drive the same kind of car as you, have the same kind of clothes, listen to the same music, walk the same way, or smell the same as you, so to think i want what you want in audio is presumptous. i value opinions of everyone, but i take it all with a grain of salt because if im not happy with something for myself, just because you are means nothing. you all need to be open minded enough to respect people for challenging the way people perceive audio, i mean this is OUTLAW AUDIO which in and of itself is form breaking. it is good that people are touting receivers, because it will wake up all the processor makers and force them to reevaluate their strategy. which will equal a better solution for consumers. it is arrogant to think that your product will dominate forever, and ignorant to try and let it. processors need to be on a shorter cycle life OR completely upgradeable (i prefer the latter, but that will never happen). i have more to say on this topic, but ill wait to get some responses first. :-)